Subjects: Visit to Jakarta; national security; visa cancellations; Federal politics.
EO&E...............................
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Good morning Peter.
PETER DUTTON:
Morning boys.
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Welcome back to Melbourne mate. Great to have you here.
PETER DUTTON:
Thank you.
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Hey Peter, we're going to go through if we can, can we keep you for two segments here on the show?
PETER DUTTON:
Sure mate, sure.
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Right. What we'll do is we'll break this up into international affairs and then we'll get a bit closer to home after the break.
First up, you've just returned from Jakarta, which is always an interesting exercise for an Australian person in your position. How is our relationship with Jakarta and what was the meeting all about?
PETER DUTTON:
There's a pretty positive mood on the ground. We got to meet with the President up there, which was an honour.
We have about 1.1 million Australians who holiday up in Indonesia, predominantly in Bali, but all over now – so it's an important area for us. There are a lot of foreign fighters coming back out of Syria and Iraq, through the Philippines and we're worried obviously, after the Bali attacks some years ago, that we don't see a repeat of that.
So there are a number of reasons why it's good to make sure the relationship's not taken for granted. So we're doing a lot of work on the foreign fighter space, doing a lot of work on them helping us disrupt drug importations, importations of ice and amphetamine.
We had really good access to the Ministers and they obviously support us a lot in the work that we're doing around border protection etc. So a quick visit, in and out, but very good.
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
There's been some talk that the bikies have been able to infiltrate into those areas of Indonesia – particularly into Bali – and used that as a gateway for drug importation, also for standover tactics on Australians when they're holidaying in Bali and also for people – not people smuggling, but slave trading basically. Clearly that's on the radar for you?
PETER DUTTON:
It's a big issue for us. We've cancelled the visas now of about 180 outlaw motorcycle gang members and as most Australians know they are the biggest importers and distributors of drugs. So when we read the horrific stories about kids overdosing or families suffering from the scourge of drugs, chances are that it's a bikie that has either imported that drug or has been responsible for distributing and selling it.
So there are a number – as you rightly point out – up in…well, right across South East Asia, but in Indonesia at the moment, they see an opportunity, a market up there for themselves and I think the Indonesian authorities are now well and truly on to it. They realise the sophistication now of what's an organised criminal syndicate in the bikies and I think they're working very closely and effectively with the Federal Police – with our Federal Police – to try and stamp it out because we don't want those drugs coming to our country and Indonesia doesn't want them into their country either.
LUKE DARCY:
It can be complex our relationship with Jakarta, Indonesia at times Peter. I understand a prominent General came out and visited you in Australia and it was at his request that he wanted you to go back to Indonesia. He's a very passionate tennis player, I understand Peter, and he wanted to have a game. What's the tactic there? Do you go over to Indonesia and do you win the game of tennis or do you lay down for…
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
…geez, it used to be ping pong diplomacy once upon a time…
LUKE DARCY:
…did you have any tennis in your travels?
PETER DUTTON:
Mate, we didn't. So General Wiranto and I met in Brisbane in November and I said to him that I wanted the first overseas trip as Minister for Home Affairs in this new portfolio to be to Indonesia for the reasons that I just outlined. And anyway, we had a good lunch and got chatting and he said his favourite sport was tennis – as I get older mate, I pull up too sore from footy or cricket, so tennis I've sort of been reduced to – so we tried to line it up, it didn't work out – we actually flew up late Sunday night, he wasn't available Monday morning and then I flew back overnight, leaving up there on Monday night – so always next time. But you're right if – I don't know – maybe you've got to go soft on a few [inaudible] points there…
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Peter, I was going to say, you're a very competitive man…
LUKE DARCY:
…former police officer…
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Yeah, good sports man in your day. The balls lobbed, it's at the net, he's close, you've got the smash lined up, it's for match point and there's delicate discussions going on. What do you do, do you go whack put it through them or?
PETER DUTTON:
Take the shot mate.
LUKE DARCY:
That's it. Take the shot.
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
When he says take the shot, I mean, he takes the shot.
Hey, can I ask another question in relation…the rattling of sabres is getting louder from Russia. Putin's speech last week was one of the most aggressive speeches by an international leader – particularly of a superpower – that we've heard for a long, long time – probably back to the '60s in fact.
We've seen overnight a Russian spy who was part of spy exchange – sorry he was British spy who was a double agent who was Russian, so he ratted on the Russians – has been murdered in England and, you know, it's just the whole situation; their infiltration into, their alleged infiltration into the US election. What's your feeling on this at the moment with Russia?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ed it's a big issue for us, for Russia, China, other non-state actors as well that we're concerned about. We have a problem like any western democracy. The IP that companies have on their computers, you see law firms being hacked by some of these state players and it's a big issue for ASIO and for the agencies here. It's a huge issue in the United Kingdom, more-so with Russia than China in the UK and it's a big issue obviously in the United States.
You know we joke about the US at the moment, President Trump etc, but the world needs a strong America so we don't see the rise of people like Putin, dictators in places like North Korea etc. These people need to be kept in check because they're dangerous, they're very dangerous in terms of a threat to world stability and if they think that the modern age of the Cold War is fought through the computers, they're right. They're reaching down into networks that we have, that big companies have and it can cost an economy billions of dollars and lives are put at risk. So there are big equities in getting this right and there's a lot of work that we're doing with ASIO and the agencies here to make sure that we work with businesses as well.
The threat of terrorism over the internet now through cybercrime etc. is massive and companies can lose their whole systems, can have their whole systems shut down. So it's a big problem for us and obviously a huge problem in the UK as well.
LUKE DARCY:
Hearing the voice of the Minister for Home Affairs. Peter Dutton's our special guest this morning and we're going to come back with more from him.
[commercial break]
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Peter we could talk for hours about what's going on. Donald Trump has put a Tweet out saying there may be some good discussion between United States and North Korea for the first time in a long time so fingers crossed that all happens.
Can we come back to our borders for a moment? Darce, there's a story in page five of The Herald Sun today by Keith Moor and it says: daylight robbery; thug's visas saved by Tribunal Chief and if I could read Keith Moor verbatim for the first couple of paragraphs it says here: An armed robber has been saved from deportation because a senior Administrative Appeals Tribunal member said he believes that quote: ‘fair-minded Australians would want him to.’ AAT Deputy President James Constance recently overturned a decision made by Peter Dutton – who's with us in the studio – to keep Brazilian Pedro Fernandes out of the country. He did so, despite saying his written ruling that Fernandes conduct to date quote: ‘involving, as it does, violent offending, dishonesty, domestic violence, drug use and alcohol-related driving offences.’
Fair-minded Australians are probably thinking he should have a spell offshore.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I'd be keen to hear what some of the listeners have got to say Ed because I think community standards in these sort of matters – without commenting on this matter in particular because I might be a decision-maker in relation to it – but people welcome…and we're an incredibly welcoming country to people who come here as tourists, to work, whatever it might be, but I think the vast majority of Australians say: if you're going to play up, if you're going to commit offences, break our laws, assault our families, then there's the front door. Out you go – and we've done that.
Visa cancellations are up by about 1,200 per cent. Over the last couple of years we've cancelled just over 3,300 visas, including over a couple-of-hundred people that have been involved in child sex offences and the rest and I don't make any apology for that. I think we're making our community a safer place and by doing that, by kicking the bad person out, you can welcome somebody in that's going to do the right thing.
LUKE DARCY:
And Peter, this is a deeply personal thing for you and as a police officer and starting your career seeing the affect that violent people have in society, and you're on a Sydney radio station – Ray Hadley, a prominent broadcaster up there – and the father of a one-punch victim Cole Miller rang through and you could see the emotion welling up in you.
I suppose, do you look back and think, you know, I know I'm having an effect, I know that when we remove these people it actually affects families and we're having a personal effect on lives in Australia. Is that what drives you in this space?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes mate, I think so. I mean it's a long time since I was a policeman, but those stories stay with you. I worked in the sex offenders’ squad for a while – so taking statements from young girls who'd been sexually assaulted – it does have an impact on you and it must.
The one-punch case that you speak about in relation to Cole Miller, I mean just a tragic case, and again, why do we want these people here that have caused all of that harm and misery to families that will live with that for a lifetime, losing a teenage son in his prime, a beautiful kid and it's just a terrible story.
There's a lot that we do in politics that sometimes you shake your head at, but in this job you do get a sense that you can do some good and there are a lot of people that support us in doing that work – the police and people within my own Department.
So it's frustrating sometimes with the courts where you see these cases overturned, but in the end it just makes you more determined to go on, to make sure that we do the right decision within the law. But if we can help those sort of families deal with their grief – and I think it's a just outcome when we make those sort of decisions – then it's a good day in the office.
EDDIE MCGUIRE:
Peter you're a tough man in a hard portfolio – Home Affairs, Immigration, Border Protection – doing these things. I think Australians want some reassurance at the moment and it must be frustrating for you to see all the reality television rubbish going on around you. How hard is it for the grown-ups in Canberra to maintain an equilibrium up there, to make sure that international people, that business people and the rank and file Australians still have a respect for the Parliament of Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it's a good question mate. I just think we've just got to double down and make sure that we keep talking about the things that matter to people. I mean people are waving electricity bills around over the table, thinking how they're going to pay it this quarter or this month. They're worried about paying their private health insurance or sending their kids to school and they're the sorts of issues that people are worried about. They're worried about security and safety within their community and that's what we're doing in this portfolio.
So I think you've got to try and rise above all of that, get the messages out of achievement, what we're doing, what we believe to be most important and I think if you can get that confidence going then it's good for the community. It's also good for business because businesses want to invest, they want to employ young people. That's how we get jobs growth and the rest of it.
So, I just think you've got to concentrate on what you can influence, remain absolutely resolute in sticking to what you know to be right and that's, I guess, the only way that you can deal with it.
LUKE DARCY:
Peter, big portfolio, a lot on your plate. We appreciate you taking the time out, as always, to come by our studio this morning. Thanks for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Darce, thanks Ed. Cheers.
