Subjects: Medevac laws, Self-harm incidents in Nauru and PNG, Dr Yang Hengjun
EO&E..........................................................
BEN FORDHAM:
Right now I want to speak to Peter Dutton because out of the 111 asylum seekers brought to Australia under the controversial medevac laws, only four were taken to hospital when they arrived here - four out of 111. Michael Pezzullo, the Secretary of Home Affairs, says the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers brought here under the medical transfer laws have never spent a night in hospital. Seventy out of the 111 transferred here are not even outpatients, which means they haven't even needed to visit a hospital for treatment during the day. Only four out of the 111 had to go straight to hospital when they arrived and as of last Thursday, when the most recent data was published, none are in hospital right now.
These medevac laws were passed in March against the Government's wishes, giving doctors more say in granting refugees transfers to Australia for medical treatment. Now, at the time, we raised concerns that the system could be exploited by people coming here and never going back. Michael Pezzullo appears to agree. He says: what started as medical transfers have over time been transformed into legal blocking actions to keep these persons in Australia, irrespective of their medical status.
On the line, the Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton. Minister, good afternoon.
PETER DUTTON:
Good afternoon, Ben.
BEN FORDHAM:
These were not your laws.
PETER DUTTON:
No, they weren't and we argued fiercely against them at the time because we were worried that it was just being used as a way for people who'd sought to come to Australia by boat, for them to come from Manus or Nauru on the pretence that they had a medical condition when in fact that wasn't the case. One of the most alarming aspects, again as predicted at the time, is that the number of people self-harming has dramatically increased. In fact, up by 130 per cent after these laws came in and people are harming themselves so that they can come to Australia and that's been the impact of the Labor Party laws that they introduced with Kerryn Phelps, and it's really turned out to be a terrible thing.
BEN FORDHAM:
So these laws that were designed to help asylum seekers have led to self-harming incidents increase by 130 per cent.
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, they have, and Labor was warned of this at the time. We've got the Labor Party out there trying to lecture us on what we should do around border protection, but the reality is the decisions they made - in the first place to change the laws that John Howard had put in place to effectively stop boats. They had 1200 people drown at the sea and 50,000 people came on 800 boats. Now, we've largely cleaned the mess up and I've never put a person onto Manus or Nauru, but my job is to clean it up. It really frustrates me that Labor has passed this law, which compels us to bring people to Australia for medical attention and gives us no ability to send them back once that medical assistance has been provided. And when you've got people who are self-harming simply to come to our country, then that really is a very bad outcome for everybody concerned.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well, where's Kerryn Phelps and the ALP and the Greens today addressing all of this?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it's a good question. I think Mr Albanese should be out there, firstly apologising because he was warned this would be the outcome; and secondly, explaining that he has had a change of heart and that they will support the Government in abolishing this bad law. We've said that we need the support of the Labor Party in the Senate to abolish the law and that's our intention because if people needed medical attention, of course we were already providing that. But what Labor has done now in seeing a significant increase in the number of people self-harming, is, at the same time, undermined our border protection system.
Our country can't be in a position where people are dictating who comes to our country if they've self-harmed. We're obliged, under the reforms that Labor introduced into law, to have those people come to Australia. It just makes no sense. And we provide support, as I say, medical assistance, to people when they're in need, but to have us compelled as a country to have these people arrive on our shores really subverts the strong border protection policies that we've got in place.
BEN FORDHAM:
I remember speaking to you at the time - we're speaking right now to Peter Dutton, the Home Affairs Minister - I remember speaking you at the time and you said: look, we've already got evidence. We've already got very strong signals that laws like this can be used and abused for people to come to Australia under false pretences and then just to stay here; to use the legal system to be stuck to Australia like super glue and never leave.
PETER DUTTON:
And the General in charge of Operation Sovereign Borders was very clear in giving that evidence to the committee. The Secretary, as you point out, Mike Pezzullo, provided the facts and they can't be argued with.
Now, why Labor wants to continue to undermine our border policies is beyond me. And it's clear that Mr Albanese's got a significant - not just a rump now - but a very significant number, probably a majority within the Labor Party, that if they were elected tomorrow would undo all of our border protection policies. They've already said that they'll abolish the temporary protection visas, which has been a key element of the success in Operation Sovereign Borders. They've said that they would, only in very limited circumstances, turn back boats. And even that, you'd have to question whether or not they would. And it's clear that they're against offshore processing.
In fact, they undermine the very important policy of offshore processing with this medevac bill and they supported Kerryn Phelps when she introduced the bill. They were warned about it and now, as a result of Labor's actions, we're seeing people self-harm and we're seeing people come into our medical system here in Australia in significant numbers. As you say, Ben, at the moment, at this point in time, not one of those people of the 111 is in the hospital system. They're not they're not in as an in-patient.
I think Labor really has got a lot to answer for.
BEN FORDHAM:
The numbers don't lie. I mean, we're all capable of cherry picking numbers to suit our argument. We know that happens in politics. But what about the number of 70. 70 out of the 111 transferred here aren't even outpatients. So that means that they haven't even needed to visit a hospital for treatment during the day.
PETER DUTTON:
That's the reality of what's been imposed on us. The very important point is, as I said before, where people needed medical attention, we provided that medical attention either on Nauru or Manus or at the International Hospital in Papua New Guinea - where Australians, if they're working over there or if they're living in PNG, would go for medical attention. And we provided that support and Australian taxpayers have now contributed billions of dollars to what is just a massive clean-up of Labor's mess where people drowned at sea, we had kids in detention - we've got all of those children out of detention, we've stopped the drownings at sea. Whilst we still have very significant concerns about boats restarting and occasional ones that that might make an attempt, we've largely cleaned up Labor's mess.
I want to get the number of people on Nauru and Manus down to zero as quickly as possible, but I don't want those people self-harming and I don't want us, as a country, being obliged to accept people in that circumstance. I just don't think Labor understand the complexity, the determination of people to get to our country. There are millions of people that would want to come to a country like ours tomorrow because the generosity of the welfare system, the health system, the education system, housing et cetera. And we're a generous nation, we accept people the right way through the humanitarian program. But we don't accept people coming via boat and we've been very clear as a Government from day one on that issue.
BEN FORDHAM:
And when you have people deliberately self-harming, when you have people faking illness, then it means you take the very important medical attention away from the people who need it most.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, Ben, we've got limited capacity within our system; there's no question. And in New South Wales Health, in Victoria Health, Queensland Health, we've got limited resources. We have a situation where people are coming here in circumstances where I don't believe their presence is warranted and I think in many of those cases, medical assistance could have been provided or in some cases wasn't required to be provided because under the old regime they weren't self-harming to get here the way in which they are under Labor's law.
BEN FORDHAM:
Well, we already have evidence of that before today. But today, my colleague Ray Hadley - who you will speak to on Thursday - has been given an email from Westmead Hospital saying don't come to emergency unless it's an emergency because there are 60 patients currently waiting for beds in the Emergency Department at Westmead Hospital.
Let me ask you about one other matter before I let you go - the Australian man who's been formally arrested in China. How concerned are you about Dr Yang Hengjun?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, extremely concerned. And the Foreign Minister has made representations, obviously, to her counterpart. But we are very worried about the harsh conditions, particularly given that it's been seven months or so. And we are worried about the doctor. We're able to express our concerns to the Chinese authorities and we would ask them to deal with the matter as quickly as possible.
BEN FORDHAM:
Should he be let go to come back to Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, we believe he should be. If he's being held for political beliefs, he should be released. Again, Marise Payne's made that point. And we'll provide whatever consular assistance we can and we'll work with the Chinese authorities to make sure that whatever conditions this individual is being held in are appropriate. But we do have very significant concerns. And if he is being held for political beliefs, he should be released.
BEN FORDHAM:
We'll hear you with Ray on Thursday morning, Minister. Thanks for coming on.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks, Ben. Take care, mate.
BEN FORDHAM:
Peter Dutton, the Home Affairs joining us. And just on that case involving Dr Young Hengjun, he just made it clear: he should be released.
[Ends]
