Subjects: Citizenship; Senator Dastyari; 501 Character Cancellations; outlaw motocycle gang members.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
RAY HADLEY:
Minister, good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray. Great to see you're in Brisbane.
RAY HADLEY:
Lovely to be in Brisbane.
PETER DUTTON:
Very nice.
RAY HADLEY:
They've turned it on for us and I went to a fantastic pub the other day called the Pineapple Pub…
PETER DUTTON:
Ah, Pineapple Hotel.
RAY HADLEY:
That's it. And I was a guest of an organisation called RATS – it's Radio and TV Survivors – and I was able to address them and it was a lot of people who have survived the radio and TV industry and I was with them for an hour or so at the invitation of one of my old bosses David Greenwood. And to all those people I met yesterday, thank you for giving me that welcome and it was a beautiful day. A beautiful old pub just near the Gabba.
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah, if the cricket's on you can have a steak there first and then go down and watch the cricket in the afternoon. I think a lot of people will do that in the run up to the Big Bash series. It's a great night for the family, the Big Bash, so the Gabba puts it on very well.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. Not such a great time for Federal Parliament. Citizenship saga. We've dragged on to 2018. Now, I know that you'll – I can almost read your mind as to what you're going to say because I've listened to what Labor's had to say this morning – but surely there's some middle ground here. Surely if we've got Feeney and Gallagher referred to the High Court and we've got doubt over two, three others of the Labor Party – and with all due respect, there may be some doubt over one or two of your people including Mr Falinski and perhaps Nola Marino, perhaps – but surely to goodness we can come to the stage where we say, look, let's get the people where there is some doubt referred – whether their Liberal, Labor, Rebekha Sharkie from Xenophon – whatever it may be, let's get them referred and get the mess out of the way before Christmas, but it doesn't appear like it's going to happen.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, we've certainly tried to do that. I mean, the fact that Barnaby Joyce has already had his matter heard by the High Court and has had the by-election – he's back in Parliament – and our desire was to put people up if there was doubt and to have the matter finalised as quickly as possible.
I mean, Bill Shorten all along said that Labor had no problem, their vetting processes were much stricter than the Liberal Party or the National Party. Well, as it turns out, that's not been the case.
And the clear outcome in the High Court was to tighten the definition and it was very clear in their decision who was in and who was out.
Now, one of the cardinal sins in politics is to mislead the Parliament and the process that Malcolm Turnbull's put in place means that individual members need to make a declaration, they need to satisfy themselves that they are Australian citizens, that they are not in breach of Section 44 and our people have done that. I mean, they've gone to great expense – some of them – to get legal advice, including Josh Frydenberg and others. And there is no doubt in terms of those cases and that's the advice that they've got and they have made the declaration knowing that if they mislead the Parliament then there are serious and fatal consequences for that.
Whereas, you look at the Labor cases, they're straight up and down...
RAY HADLEY:
…well can I just take issue with you there?
PETER DUTTON:
Yep.
RAY HADLEY:
Jason Falinski. Okay? He's released legal advice obtained from a Melbourne law firm which says: oh look, you're not a British citizen or a Polish citizen or a Russian citizen; but they say: we cannot conclusively advise on foreign law and recommend that you seek independent advice from foreign law experts to confirm our views set out in this advice. Now, I mean, you can't say with any clarity that he's in the clear based on that legal advice.
So while I accept that Alex Hawke has appeared to clear himself from the Greek Consulate saying: no, you're not a citizen. I accept that Nola Marino has cleared herself, but I think there's some doubt here. So I just think if the Government were to say well look, yes, there may be some doubt based on this legal advice on Jason Falinski, so we will now refer him along with Keay, Wilson and Rebekha Sharkie – and any of the others we can find from the Labor Party, maybe Josh Wilson – into the High Court and pass it all up and get rid of it.
PETER DUTTON:
Ray, I promise you, our desire is to get this issue resolved, over and done with as quickly as possible. We don't want it dragging on because it just distracts away from the work that the Government's doing. And we do want to have it cleared which is why we made those early referrals.
Now, I don't know the extent of the legal advice that Jason has sought, but I know that people have gone through the steps depending on their heritage, what country they've come from, all of that – back through generations in some cases – and I think our people are as satisfied as they can humanly be satisfied whereas the people on the Labor side have particular difficulties as a result of the finding from the High Court.
Now, if Bill Shorten doesn't want to refer those people – I mean, they were running round yesterday saying we admit that four of ours need to be referred, but you need to give us four of yours so that it can be even, so it can be an even process. Well that's a nonsense. Picking people at random or suggesting that somebody should be referred to the High Court even if they're not in doubt simply so that you can balance up the ledger is crazy talk.
And I think Bill Shorten needs to show the leadership here, refer these people off. They've already referred Katy Gallagher…
RAY HADLEY:
…yeah but surely if Falinski's entitled to be … I mean, I know you've got to toe the party line, but you're a fair dinkum sort of bloke. If you're going to say that about those, there is some doubt about Falinski and he has to go as well. I mean, you can't…
PETER DUTTON:
…I just don't know that there is. I mean…
RAY HADLEY:
….well the lawyers have said it quite clearly Minister. They've said, quite clearly: look, while we don't think this is the case, you'd better check with the foreign governments to see whether it is the case. I mean, there is some doubt about it.
PETER DUTTON:
But Ray, in these cases – as I say, I don't know the extent of the legal advice that he's got, I don't know whether it extends beyond that which has already been replaced publicly. But people have gone back to governments, they have gone back to…
RAY HADLEY:
…but he hasn't.
PETER DUTTON:
…consulates and all of that information has been explored. So you don't make a declaration to the Parliament here unless you've assured yourself of the fact that you don't breach Section 44.
In Labor's case, as a result of the finding in the High Court, those people are now in strife. Now, as I say, if Bill Shorten takes the decision not to refer them then, you know, we'll wait for the cases that are before the High Court now and then he can get further clarity and decide from there.
RAY HADLEY:
What guarantee – because I know Christopher Pyne's jumping up and down – but what guarantee do we have if Katy Gallagher is found to have been ineligible to stand and therefore will be stripped, what guarantee do we have that the others who followed the same process and were in the same category as her, who won't refer themselves or they won't be referred; what guarantee do we have that then they follow the precedent set by the High Court? Or do they say: oh well it's a separate matter for me so I'll go to the High Court as well now that Katy Gallagher's been booted out – or retained, as the case may be.
PETER DUTTON:
I think in the end the leaders of the respective parties have to show the leadership and they've been elected to show that leadership.
I mean David Feeney for example, who hasn't been in the clear for a long period of time, obviously he claims he's lost documentation or it was never there.
RAY HADLEY:
He's got a shocking record on documentation. Properties that he doesn't know he owns and declares. He's got a very ordinary record David.
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah, well he's obviously misplaced this paperwork in the move between houses which – the house he forgot about. But anyway, something's gone wrong in the process. So…
RAY HADLEY:
Oh hang on, this is another excuse. He's moved houses from a house he didn't know he had, to another house and somehow he's lost the documentation from it.
PETER DUTTON:
That's right. Along with the tax records, somehow they went up in smoke somewhere. So he's in all sorts of strife. But he wouldn't have been discovered if Malcolm Turnbull hadn't put in place the process to try and smoke these people out that have been hiding in plain sight. And the fact is that Feeney's been picked up.
Now, these matters – including Katy Gallagher – if the High Court decides on those facts they're going to change their judgement or add to the clarity that they've provided already, that may mean that others are captured. I think it will on the Labor side. I think frankly Shorten would be smarter to refer them now, have the matters resolved and move on.
But he's dug in, which is what he did knowing that these people had problems. He gave all sorts of guarantees a few weeks ago and said Labor has no problem at all, there's nothing to see here and he was obviously trying to wait it out. And Bill Shorten can be shifty like that, but in the end they've been found out.
I want this issue, the Prime Minister wants this issue resolved as quickly as possible, because Australians want us to get on with governing and doing the things that we've been elected to do.
RAY HADLEY:
Have you heard the Sam Dastyari song the boys did for me?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I'd love to hear it.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay good.
[Plays Audio]
Well we'll play it in its entirety a bit later. You want that for your ring-phone for your phone? Do you want me to send it to you?
PETER DUTTON:
I've probably had enough of Sam's voice already so maybe not, but he's got, he's in a world of hurt
RAY HADLEY:
A mate of mine sent me a text this morning, a mate of mine, and said: forget about Shanghai Sam, should be Sam Mata Hari, of course who was executed during World War I for spying for the Germans. I mean I'm not suggesting he's a spy, but my gee, it's an ordinary look with Sharri Markson declaring today that he went to the Senate Estimates and asked all these questions on behalf of Japan, of China im sorry. Now he's a New South Wales Senator, but it's not Bourke, or Blacktown, or anyone starting with a B, it's not Bellingen, but it's Beijing he represents when he goes before the Federal Parliament, the Senate.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Labor can't have a foreign spy sitting in the Senate. I mean this is pretty clear, I don't know how much more basic you need to get Ray. But you can't have people who are sitting in the Senate who don't have the national interest of our country at heart. And if Sam Dastyari has compromised himself, if there are all sorts of issues that he needs to answer, he needs to do it frankly outside the Parliament, because his time is up. Now Bill Shorten, I suspect, will wait until Parliament's over this week and then dump him next week. But there's no way in the world that Sam Dastyari can be an Australian senator given his track record.
These aren't innocent words that have been taken out of context and sometimes you hear people cutely say. The bloke's asked 115 questions. He spoke to Bill Shorten and then he goes to speak to this individual involved, tells him that maybe his phone's off and maybe ASIO's listening, let's walk outside to transact business. We don't know what the business is. We don't know what Bill Shorten told him. We know that Mr Shorten received a security briefing and that Mr Dastyari didn't.
So, there are more questions here than answers at the moment and I think Mr Shorten has to act. I know he's got a personal friendship. We know that Sam Dastyari is very close to Kristina Keneally in Bennelong. We know that Dastyari does the numbers for Bill Shorten. There are all sorts of factional plays and union secret deals done here. In the end, if you can't put Australia first, you shouldn't be in the Australian Senate and that's why Dastyari should go.
RAY HADLEY:
The copper just came out in you then. You said his phone's off. That means it's bugged, but it's a term used by police across Australia if they're talking about someone's phone being bugged they say his phone's off by the way. The old copper came out in you there.
Now, just one final thing. You've been fairly strong on this Shane Martin character – an outlaw motorcycle gang member. Who as you said correctly yesterday, just happens to be the father of an outstanding sportsman in AFL. But that shouldn't give him some sort of rail's run to come back here from New Zealand shouldn't it?
PETER DUTTON:
I've cancelled the visas of 154, or maybe a couple more now, bikies, people that have been involved in outlaw motorcycle gangs. This bloke was the president of the local Rebels branch.
The Rebels have been involved in – and this is well documented in the courts – been involved in the distribution of drugs, they've been involved in extortion, standover, all sorts of criminal activities.
Nobody's crying crocodile tears over any of the other 153, but this bloke unfortunately is trading on the incredible skill and success of his son who happens to be a great footy player in Victoria and that's not going to change his background.
I mean Mr Martin's made decisions to lead his life a certain way, to be involved in outlaw motorcycle gangs. If you do that, then there's a price to pay, there's a consequence as a result of it. The law is very clear in Australia and that is that we don't want people of bad character here. We don't want non-citizens who are committing crimes or involved in outlaw motorcycle gangs. We've been very clear about it. My mind is not going to change.
I can't be any more frank and forthright in relation to it, but people can hold a candle for a bikie if they like, but I'll stand on the side of people that have been victims of bikies and bikie gangs.
They remain – as we've said on the program before Ray – the biggest distributors of ice and drugs in the country. That's what bikies do. They're not involved in the local bakery, or they're not builders. They're not involved in legitimate businesses, small businesses. These people, their business is crime and we don't need them in our country.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. We'll talk one more time this year next week. Thanks for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Ray. See you mate.
[ends]
