Subjects: Same-sex marriage; multi-agency operation; Bill Shorten's lack of leadership in supporting strengthening citizenship requirements; 'Mayor of Martin Place.'
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
RAY HADLEY:
Minister good morning to you.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
Same-sex marriage; if we'd had a plebiscite when we wanted to have a plebiscite you and I wouldn't be talking about it and we wouldn't be driving each other mad about it. You were the one that originally proposed a postal vote. I'd describe it as not the best option, but it appears to be under the current arrangements the only option.
PETER DUTTON:
Ray, when you look at all the options on the table, that's right and the fact is that we went to the last election with a policy promising the Australian public that they could have a say on what is a very important social issue. Lots of people feel very passionate about this issue, both for and against it, and our judgement was that they should be given the opportunity to say whether or not they supported it.
Now we've been very clear about the fact that we don't want to break election promises. It was the undoing of the Gillard Government and it was very difficult for Tony Abbott to get through his commitment of no cuts – even though if you put more money into health and education, there was a cut in the growth of the funding – and still that bedevilled him for a long period of time.
So the Prime Minister was very definite that he wanted to carry out that undertaking that we gave to the Australian people and I think he should be commended for it.
So the plebiscite itself, as you say, has been blocked in the Senate. We can't get that through and that's the reality. It's now been voted down twice by the Senate and we have the option really only left of a postal plebiscite. It doesn't require legislation. It's cheaper than a plebiscite, but people have been critical of the fact that maybe you might get a turnout of 40 per cent – as Peter Hartcher from The Sydney Morning Herald pointed out the other day – 38 per cent of people voted in France to elect the French President and nobody's calling that an illegitimate poll.
I think it's important for both sides to have a respectful debate. People can have their say and we'll see what the outcome is toward the end of the year.
RAY HADLEY:
So in physical terms what happens? Do those of us on the electoral roll simply get a letter do we and fill this in and return it? Is that how it works?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes and the Electoral Commission does that all the time for different organisations, including unions, including all sorts of financial institutions. That sort of process is underway all the time. So they'll mail out the ballots, people will complete them and send them back in.
RAY HADLEY:
See one of the things that…you know and we're all mindful of history, but sometimes we all have memory lapses and I remember talking last week, people were…hang on a second it was raised by the Opposition, it was John Howard who confirmed what the Marriage Act is through an act of Parliament. So as it's now defined, it was an act of Parliament by both Houses of Parliament that determined that this is what the Marriage Act is and that was quite a number of years ago obviously, during the time of John Howard.
But there was a vote in 2012. Everyone seems to have forgotten that at that time Julia Gillard was Prime Minister, Wayne Swan, the Labor Party Deputy Prime Minister and the vote was about changing the Marriage Act. People spoke out about it – both from the Labor Party, the Greens, other people and your Party no doubt were having a say about it – but it was defeated in Parliament and it wasn't defeated by one or two votes, it was overwhelming to the extent that Anthony Albanese – who is a supporter of same-sex marriage – came out and said, 'well we wouldn't have got 40 votes four years ago, but here we are with 40 votes.' But the unfortunate part for him was there were about 80 or 90 going the other way.
And I'll remind people of what I said this morning; Penny Wong, who spoke so eloquently yesterday in support of same-sex marriage and decried people like Eric Abetz and others who are opposed to it, she said herself on the issue of marriage, 'I think the reality is there's a cultural, religious, and historical view around that which we have to respect.' Now that was her view a number of years ago. She's entitled to change her view, as we all are from time-to-time, but she's not entitled to condemn the people who still hold a view she previously held.
PETER DUTTON:
No and this is Bill Shorten's position as well. I mean Bill Shorten has been very shifty on this issue. If you look at his history, I mean he's been for and against gay marriage and he's been for and against a plebiscite and I saw him in Parliament yesterday basically saying, 'look if you've got a view that you don't support gay marriage, then your view is not worthwhile.' Now I just don't understand that. I mean Malcolm Turnbull is saying we want to hear from people who are for and against gay marriage, you can have your say, as you should in a democracy like ours, but for Bill Shorten, as I say, he was advocating a plebiscite not that long ago and now he's saying that if you've got a different view then it's not worth it.
The Labor Party had six years in government under two or three Prime Ministers – Rudd, Gillard, Rudd – to implement this change. They didn't do it and they're on their high horse now lecturing to us and I think Australians look at this and say, 'well why wouldn't we have our say?' It's a very significant issue. As I say, people have got deeply held views on both sides. As long as a debate is held respectfully, that's what we would expect in a country like ours, and then in the end we respect the outcome.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. There's breaking news on these arrests in relation to drugs and tobacco smuggling that has been everywhere since Tuesday, but it says here a federal public servant has been charged in relation to the Ibrahim tobacco smuggling ring. Are you aware of this matter?
PETER DUTTON:
Ray I am. So there has been an officer from the Australian Border Force who has been charged and there's a second officer who – or a former officer – so two people that have been arrested in relation to this ongoing Operation now from the Australian Federal Police, ABF, all of the agencies, including the New South Wales Police.
So it's disappointing. We've got 5,500 officers and like any law enforcement agency there'll always be a bad apple, but I feel sorry for the 99.9 per cent of good officers who are let down by these people.
Now, these are allegations and matters will be tested through the courts, but we've put a lot of extra money in recent years into ACLEI – which is the oversight body that looks at these allegations – and we're going to continue to really push hard because I won't tolerate one instance of corruption within the organisation and people can expect further police activity if that's what they're involved in.
RAY HADLEY:
Well I guess the allegation is a current officer and a former officer have been corrupted. That's what the allegation will be.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, as I say, there are allegations there at the moment, but it's serious and we need to, as I say, recognise that there's a lot more money going into investigating. Officers of the ABF or the AFP or New South Wales Police, whoever they might be, if they believe in the 21st century that they can get away with this sort of corrupt behaviour, then they really have another thing coming.
I think the work of the Federal Police and the New South Wales Police frankly over the course of the last couple of days in what has been an unprecedented investigation here, which has been ongoing for a long time, but also in other countries as well, it just shows you how professional they are and I think people should have faith in the Federal Police, they do a great job.
RAY HADLEY:
Well you know in politics you can't keep a secret and the media can't keep a secret, but it's proven here, given the length of this inquiry, no one knew about it. It's absolutely pristine in terms of the way it's been conducted, the way they've conducted themselves – all the agencies – because as far as I can see, there hasn't been one leak.
PETER DUTTON:
No there hasn't been and it's a great credit to all of them. When we had briefings along the way in the run-up to the execution of the warrants, it was obvious the scope of what the Federal Police and the other agencies had been able to achieve and I think the warrants were executed effectively.
Obviously there's a mass of information now that they need to go through and there'll be other lines of inquiry. So I think criminals across the country should be very worried about this Operation because it is far reaching and it has been the culmination of an enormous amount of work by hundreds and hundreds of officers and the fact that it has been kept under wraps and there hasn't been a leak is a great credit to them.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. Tony Burke from the Opposition has lashed out at your Government at the overhaul of the citizenship laws and tougher English language requirements, particularly possible exemptions for people who hold passports from Canada, the UK, US, Ireland, New Zealand. Why? Because they speak English! He says it's straight out offensive, but he was in fact – albeit for a short time – the Minister for Immigration when Mr Rudd took over of course in 2013 before losing to Mr Abbott.
Is it right that during that period that the same requirements were in place in relation to English speaking nations like Canada, the UK, US, Ireland and the USA?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes and it shows you the hypocrisy here. I mean Tony Burke is probably known for one thing to Australians – I mean, his skiing holidays with Eddie Obeid – but also allowing boats in. He was an Immigration Minister that presided over people drowning at sea and kids going into detention. So let me tell you I'm not going to take a morals lecture from Tony Burke, but even more so, he's a hypocrite because the criticism that he levelled yesterday actually reflected the arrangement that Labor had in place when they were in government.
Now, what are we saying? We're saying that for Australian citizenship we want people to abide by the law, we want them to adhere to Australian values, we want them to integrate into Australian society and we want people to speak a competent level of the English language because whether it's kids going to school, whether it's people studying, going into the workplace, running a business, being involved in the local school, whatever it is, people need to have a level of English proficiency. We're saying it should be at a competent level.
This is a red herring frankly from Labor. I think it's pretty telling Ray. I mean Labor is still split and divided on their approach to borders and they've got the same ideological split with the Left I think just monstering Bill Shorten on this issue where they're not going to support these sensible citizenship changes. I mean Mr Shorten can explain for himself, but Tony Burke has humiliated himself yet again.
RAY HADLEY:
Now I've got a stack of emails particularly in light of revelations today in The Australian about the so-called and self-appointed Mayor of Martin Place Lanz Priestly. It appears that Mr Priestly has been rather loose with the truth, as opposed to most people who put their age back, he's put it forward from 59 to 72.
PETER DUTTON:
I couldn't understand that actually.
RAY HADLEY:
No, no. I'm turning 63 in September and I'll be 63 for the next 12 years, but I don't understand it, but he's got an extensive criminal record. Is there any move to see whether he could be afforded the luxury of a plane trip back to his native Wellington?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, as I often have to say to you, I don't want to comment on an individual case because I might be the decision maker in that case.
So the general comment I'd make is that we look at cases all the time where people are not Australian citizens, where they're here on a visa and they're a non-citizen. If they've been involved in criminal activity, if they have acted outside of the conditions of their visa, then frankly they can expect to have their visa cancelled and return back to their country of origin and we've really done that at a record rate over the last few years because we want people to come here, abide by the law. We're a welcoming country, but we're not too welcoming to those who come here and commit crimes against Australians.
So where these matters come to our attention, we're very happy to have a look at them and we work with the police across the jurisdictions, including New South Wales. So I'd just wait and see what might happen in relation to other matters.
RAY HADLEY:
Well I won't ask you to comment on this, but there's a story I've been sent from The Herald Sun in Melbourne and I'd congratulate you – David Hurley's got the story. A bikie with a long history of drug trafficking has been thrown into immigration, his visa cancelled I presume by your Department. British born Danny Mousley, 57, picked-up by the Australian Border Force officers last week. The Herald Sun understands the cancellation of his visa was ordered by the Minister on grounds of links to the Geelong chapter of the Rebels outlaw motorcycle gang. He's 57. I don't know how long he's been here, but if we can get him back to his native UK, bad luck for them and good luck for us.
On that note, I'll leave you here. Thank you very much.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Ray. Take care mate.
[ends]
