Subjects: Melbourne African crime gangs.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
HEIDI MURPHY:
He is on the line now, the Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton. Good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Heidi, thank you for inviting me on the show.
HEIDI MURPHY:
No problem at all. Thanks for being here. Well we've made plenty of comments about what the problems are. Do you have any suggestions on solutions?
PETER DUTTON:
Well just a couple of points first. I haven't bagged Melbourne anywhere. I've answered the radio requests that I've had, including a call from your producers to my media staff asking me to come on this morning. So [indistinct] sort the interview out …
HEIDI MURPHY:
…no, very much appreciate you coming on. Thank you.
PETER DUTTON:
So just to deal with the facts. So there is a problem in Victoria. Everybody knows that, except Daniel Andrews it seems. So there's a real problem when – as we're seeing with the courts in Victoria – when people are getting bail, they're back committing offences within a matter of a couple of hours.
You've got Premier Andrews making light of the fact that families are concerned, in some cases to go out, depending on where they are living of the night time. There was a poll out in Fairfax only last week showing 62 per cent of people within one of the state electorates in Victoria were concerned about going out at night because of the gang violence.
And my only argument has been that Daniel Andrews has created this mess through appointments to the Magistrates Court, as well as the District Court and elsewhere. They've made problems by not having adequate sentences and deterrents put in place when people are actually arrested and convicted of these crimes.
HEIDI MURPHY:
But what do you suggest Government actually does? Tells those judges exactly what to do or sacks them all and starts again?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think you reap what you sow Heidi. So this hasn't been a problem that's been created in the last week or in the week before Christmas. This is a problem years in the making and it's not a problem in New South Wales, or Queensland, or Perth, it's a problem in Victoria …
HEIDI MURPHY:
…but what's the solution Minister? What's the solution? If that is the main problem here, if that's the main driver of everything we're seeing at the moment, if that is indeed the main driver, what's the solution to it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well the solution in part is to make sure that the appointments that you're making to the Magistrates Court are people that will impose sentences and will provide some deterrents to people repeatedly coming before the courts. So if you're appointing civil libertarians to the Magistrates Court over a long period of time then you will get soft sentences and that's the reality.
HEIDI MURPHY:
….but appointing different judges now is going to take years to come through, years to filter through, if it's a matter of replacing each of the judges that you say have been appointed years and years and years ago. What's the fix now? Is there a fix now?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Daniel Andrews was speaking the same language 18 months ago telling people that we're going to see tougher sentences, there would be a stepped-up law and order program, money put into the police. He's saying the same thing now that he was saying 18 months ago. So let's see some action. Let's see what Victoria can do to provide additional support to the Victorian Police.
The frontline police officers I think, like the public, are pulling their hair out because they are dealing day in day out with these people. They are being assaulted by these people. I see the evidence of it again this morning on the front page of the Herald Sun.
There is a significant problem in Victoria and Mr Andrews has made light of the fact that, as I say, some people who have expressed concern, they've been in the media, they're the victims of these crimes and I think that's unacceptable.
I think Daniel Andrews needs to apologise to the people of Victoria because he's wrapped himself up in this politically correct language which hasn't allowed them to refer to people as gangs.
The law in Victoria applies equally to every Victorian and the fact is that at the moment we are seeing the consequences of some bad decisions that have been made over a long period of time. And Mr Andrews has created this problem, he needs to fix it up.
HEIDI MURPHY:
The argument from the state politicians is that well maybe it has been an issue over years and years and part of that issue is funding from the Federal Government. The Acting Premier, I had in the studio with me earlier this week and he said: if we had a bit more cash we could put on even more police, we could deal with things more appropriately.
PETER DUTTON:
[inaudible] do you really believe that garbage….
HEIDI MURPHY:
….I know funding arguments have existed …
PETER DUTTON:
…complete garbage…
HEIDI MURPHY:
….arguments over funding …
PETER DUTTON:
...why is this a problem in Victoria, but it's not a problem in South Australia or in Queensland or in Sydney?
HEIDI MURPHY:
There is no African crime in any of those cities?
PETER DUTTON:
Certainly nothing like that we're seeing in Victoria and it's not just African crime. You're seeing people of all sorts of nationalities, who are going before the courts, getting a slap on the wrist. I don't care whether people…
HEIDI MURPHY:
…yes a slap on the wrist in the courts, but …
PETER DUTTON:
…are of African background or if they're a particular religion, they're a particular ethnic background. I couldn't care less. I want people in Victoria to be safe. I don't want to see somebody hurt at the hands of these thugs again and I'm worried that it is elevated. You are seeing the machete attacks or weapons they're taking into service stations. It is going to ramp up and I am worried that somebody could suffer significant personal harm or death out of one of these incidents. And that is why – you know the State Government in Victoria is saying that there's no problem and people referring to it as gangs are trying to hype it up. It's all complete nonsense. Accept there's a problem and fix it.
HEIDI MURPHY:
The Government is happy to accept it is a problem. Happy is the wrong word to use. The Government has accepted it's a problem. The Premier yesterday said on his first day back from leave: it's a problem, we're dealing with it. I've got every confidence and he was happy to use the g word – gang. He was happy to say African gangs.
PETER DUTTON:
Well 18 months ago he did exactly the same speech and what's happened in the intervening 18 months? It's got worse.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Are you simply blaming the judiciary for it getting worse?
PETER DUTTON:
I'm blaming the State Government for making appointments which I think you're seeing the consequences of now. Police are being repeatedly assaulted and people are getting essentially a slap on the wrist.
I find that unacceptable and again it's my job as Home Affairs Minister is to deal with national security issues and I have responsibility for the Federal Police and ASIO and the rest and I don't want to see people suffer. I've ramped up the number of visa cancellations by 1,200 per cent. We are kicking out criminals that are committing offences...
HEIDI MURPHY:
…how many have you been able to kick out? How many have you successfully deported?
PETER DUTTON:
About 3,000.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Over what period?
PETER DUTTON:
Over the course of the last two years or so. So that's up dramatically and it'll continue to grow because 99 per cent of people who come to our country do the right thing, but the one per cent who don't, we're not going to accept their presence.
And if you are invited into somebody's home and you trash the house and assault the wife and children within that household, well people show you the door and that's what's going to continue to happen here. If you are an outlaw motorcycle gang member importing drugs or distributing drugs and you've got kids who are overdosing, or you've got people who are being extorted – because that's the way that bikies operate – well if they're a non-citizen and they're on a visa then they're breaching their visa conditions and they'll go.
So I think if we had the same tough approach from the Victorian Government over the last 18 months then Victorians would be safer. But at the moment Daniel Andrews has failed the first responsibility of a leader in his position in Victoria and that is to keep the people of Victoria safe. People are worried about this crime and they want it resolved and at the moment Mr Andrews doesn't have the answers.
HEIDI MURPHY:
With respect, I don't believe you have the answers either Minister. The judiciary is the judiciary. We are stuck with the judges we've got.
PETER DUTTON:
Again, Mr Andrews can answer that question. He can answer the question. I mean Mr Lasry, who is a left-wing ideologue, appointed to the court, was dismissive the other day of some of the comments I made...
HEIDI MURPHY:
….yeah when he tweeted about people not being afraid to go out for dinner at Mansfield.
PETER DUTTON:
If you've got that sort of attitude toward the public, these people who think they're above the public, it's a complete nonsense and I think there needs to be a reset of attitude.
There's the separation of powers, which is a very important principle within our society, but the judiciary is not above public scrutiny and the public expects that their standards are met and that their expectations are met in relation to serious criminals who are going before the courts. And that is part of the solution.
The other part of the problem that Mr Andrews has created is – even in relation to the Apex gangs – I mean, eventually on evidence to Jason Woods inquiry, the police in Victoria were able to advise that about 60 people at least were associated with the Apex gang. But for a long period of time, the Andrews Government wouldn't refer to those people as gang members. And the fact is that they went around terrorising families and businesses and it is bad. People want to enjoy a peaceful life in a country like ours and it's the responsibility of leaders like Daniel Andrews to deliver that and he hasn't.
HEIDI MURPHY:
There is no way to clean out the judiciary though is there?
PETER DUTTON:
I'm not suggesting the judiciary be cleaned out, I'm just saying have a look at some of the appointments that Mr Andrews has made and then you'll understand why you're getting the sentences that you are. And in other states and jurisdictions this may be a problem, but certainly not to the extent it is in Victoria.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Have you raised these concerns directly with the Premier or with the Opposition Leader or with the Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton?
PETER DUTTON:
I haven't spoken with Mr Andrews. It's not my responsibility. I'm not the Victorian Premier. I haven't created this mess. It's Mr Andrews' responsibility to clean it up and inviting me around for dinner and all these cute sort of glib lines; what Mr Andrews should be doing is going and having dinner with the families who have suffered at the hands of these thugs and get a better understanding – which clearly he doesn't have at the moment because he's dismissive of the concerns of these victims of crime – and I think it's outrageous. He can be cute and glib and wear the hardhat and high-vis vest and all the rest of it, but he is not fooling the people of Victoria. The people of Victoria know that there's a problem here and they want him to fix it up.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Okay and what about the Opposition Leader or the Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton? Have you spoken to either of those?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Matthew Guy has reached out to me recently and I know that he's also spoken to the Prime Minister. And as for Mr Andrews' conversations with the Prime Minister, that's an issue for them to comment on. I don't have that advice…
HEIDI MURPHY:
….no, no, I'm asking specifically about your conversations.
PETER DUTTON:
So I haven't spoken with the Premier.
I've spoken with Matthew Guy and Matthew Guy's raised his concerns, his deep concerns, and I know that they're putting together what they think is an appropriate response and I think that's what the Victorian public frankly is asking for because I think the public do want to see an end to the violence.
And we don't want a small element of the African community defining the law-abiding people within that community. And the fact is that in Toowoomba and Queensland for example – other parts of the country – you can point to different ethnic group concentrations where young people are working, they're in school, they're engaged in the community and they're making a great start in Australia and that's exactly what we want for people who come to our country to provide that new start.
We don't want people, who eventually will go on to become Australian citizens, who are involved in the sort of gang violence that we've seen in Victoria. We want to celebrate the richness of the diversity that comes from a migrant nation like ours and it's served us well over a long period of time, which is why people on the left can try and say he's attacking Africans or all of this garbage.
As I said before, I couldn't care less the colour of someone's skin, the religion, I want the law to apply equally to everybody. If people are assaulting police, they're assaulting service station attendants, if they're smashing up public property, they should face the full force of the law. But if they're doing that and they're getting no penalty, or if they're being released back out on bail and repeating the same offences a couple of hours later, you can understand why the police are really at their wits' end.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Have you spoken to Graham Ashton at all?
PETER DUTTON:
I've had one conversation with Graham Ashton. Obviously he's been on leave for a while. I've spoken to Shane Patton before that, but about other matters including counter-terrorism. So we've got a very good …
HEIDI MURPHY:
…so you have spoken to him – sorry – since he's been back from leave on Monday?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes I have. I've got nothing but respect for Mr Ashton, for Mr Patton, for the Victorian Police. I think the Victorian Police follow the lead of the Victorian Government as you would expect. That's the way our system operates in any democracy and I think there are a lot of frontline police frankly who are really very, very frustrated by the direction of the State Government and I think we should call it out.
And if there's something factually incorrect that I've said today, I'd welcome Mr Andrews to point it out and to show in any of my public comments over the last week or so where I've said anything that is factually incorrect. It may be inconvenient …
HEIDI MURPHY:
…you're happy to take a call from him today?
PETER DUTTON:
Of course. It may be inconvenient to hear what I'm saying, but it is factually correct. So Mr Andrews needs to deal with the facts, put aside the glib lines, go out and meet the people that he's dismissing the concerns of and put this issue to bed to deal with it. It's an issue of his making, an issue of his creation. He needs to provide the solution. If he can't, as I said yesterday, then frankly he needs to consider his own position.
HEIDI MURPHY:
When were you last in Melbourne?
PETER DUTTON:
I was in Melbourne just a couple of weeks before Christmas. So I was having dinner with friends in fact and I was down there working. I had 13 trips to Melbourne last year. I love Victoria. I think it's a great state governed by a very bad premier.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Alright. Final question to you Minister. Neil Mitchell's claimed to head out to one of the areas most impacted once he's back for the year to see what's really happening …
PETER DUTTON:
Good on him.
HEIDI MURPHY:
…would you be willing to come down and be part of that?
PETER DUTTON:
I'd be very happy to.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Alright terrific. Minister, thank you so much for your time this morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Heidi. Hope you get a holiday soon.
HEIDI MURPHY:
Pretty soon. Thank you very much.
[ends]
