Subjects: Strengthening citizenship requirements.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Thanks for joining me.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Just wanted to ask you about the new citizenship test – the new English test – is it fair to have a go at the Opposition about it if they haven't seen the legislation?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, as we've pointed out in Question Time today, some of the measures – the integrity measures – that we're proposing go back to 2014, so Labor's well and truly considered the matters, they've had them before for a period of time and we've provided a briefing. We've been very clear about what it is that we're asking for and I think you could equally ask the question; why have so many Labor members come out against what we're proposing if they claim they don't know the details? So I think it would be good to get bipartisan support on what is a very important Bill.
It's an important time for us to get citizenship right. In Victoria – everybody knows the problem with the Apex gang – at the moment many children, you know, 16-17 years of age could go on to citizenship automatically because their parents are on a pathway and if they've got a criminal history and they've been involved in gang violence, then part of the change that we're proposing here is that there wouldn't be an automatic citizenship – they could remain as a permanent resident – but they wouldn't be eligible to go on to citizenship until they can demonstrate their good character.
I think there's a lot here worth supporting and I think at the moment, frankly, there's a few red herrings being thrown out by the Labor Party.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
I just wanted to examine the idea of how useful a toughened citizenship test might be. If you want to come here and wreak havoc, do harm, nothing's stopping you lying is it in a citizenship test. So what does it achieve having a tough citizenship test?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's not just a test, it's an expansion for example of the period of permanent residency from one year to four years before somebody can apply for Australian citizenship. So in Germany that's actually eight years. In Canada it's five years – so one year was inadequate to say the least – and by allowing that four year period in the run-up to the application to citizenship, we allow people to demonstrate the fact that if they're of working age and they have a capacity to work, that they have been working over the four year period, or since the time of arrival they haven't simply led a life on welfare; whether their kids have been involved in that gang violence or they themselves have been involved in criminal activity; whether somebody maybe a perpetrator over that period of time of domestic violence, for example. So...
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…I understand the point of the longer time period, but what does a tough citizenship test achieve? If you're nasty, you're nasty enough to lie aren't you?
PETER DUTTON:
Well and we can certainly at the moment not detect that necessarily through the multi-choice test that's taken and it's 20 questions of essentially a civics value test. We're saying sure, that test is important, people should still sit it, but in addition to that, we are also asking people to demonstrate their adherence to Australian laws and to Australian values – and they can demonstrate that over the four year period where we can have a look at someone's employment history, we can have a look at the fact that they have enrolled their children if they have got children of school age.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Sorry, forgive me Minister, is it the four years that you think is the tougher part or is it the questions they get asked in the test?
PETER DUTTON:
There'll be an enhancement in terms of the questions – so there'll be additional questions that need to be asked – but the idea of the four years is to allow people to demonstrate that they have integrated, that they have accepted Australian laws, they're abiding by Australian laws and that they're abiding by Australian values. So it's a combination of the tougher test, but that not being the only test.
As it currently is we're saying that we want people to be able to demonstrate their ability to work, their ability to be involved in their community, to go to a church, go to mosque, whatever the indication might be. It's an opportunity to look more holistically at each applicant.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
I'll get to calls after the news on 1300 222 774. But Peter Dutton, the new English language test – I don't think we know the detail on that – is it university level English? What would you say…
PETER DUTTON:
…no it's not and again...
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…so what level is it?
PETER DUTTON:
It's level six. At the moment it's lower than that and there's again a red herring, I saw that quote being thrown around by Tony Burke this morning; completely erroneous.
We do expect people – and all of the research shows this as well Raf – that if you've got people who are able to work, to be more effective in the workplace, at school, in society, it's enhanced if people have the ability to speak the English language.
Now, we have a caveat for the English language requirement for people over the age of 60 and under the age of 16 – so grandparents for example migrating on a parent visa to be with the family here in Australia, we're not going to require…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…like Down syndrome were raised today, is that an exemption?
PETER DUTTON:
It would be an exemption, yes.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And what about English language resources? You've been criticised for taking resources away from English language lessons or not giving people enough access. Do you increase the resources if you increase the level of the English language test?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I'd just reject the fact that we've, you know, that we don't supply significant amount of support already, but there will be some people over a long period of time that require additional assistance.
Now, we're happy to look at that, but there is an expectation that if people want to become Australian citizens, that they are able to improve their English language skills and this is a very different situation from somebody coming out from Europe after the Second World War in the late-'40s early '50s where there was no assistance, there was no internet, there was no online learning, no capacity to...
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…sure, sorry Minister, I've only got 30 seconds, but an increase in resources or not if you raise the test level?
PETER DUTTON:
We're not proposing that we increase resources, but we're happy to look at the case. At the moment we provide a significant amount of support and we'll continue to provide support, but ultimately people will also need to help themselves and use online learning abilities, workplace abilities to improve English language etc. So all of that will be, I think, incumbent, not just on the Government, but on the applicant as well.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
We'll leave it there. Minister, thanks for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Raf. Pleasure, thanks.
[ends]
