Subjects: Closure of Manus RPC; US resettlement; citizenship of parliamentarians.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
LEON BYNER:
Peter good morning and thanks for coming on.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Leon.
LEON BYNER:
How long have you known about these things?
PETER DUTTON:
Well for some time. Obviously the Government receives intelligence reports and information from the island. We've had concern about a number of issues and some of this has been reported on in the past, some of it not, but I think Australian taxpayers recognise that they work hard for their money, they want their money to be spent efficiently and where the money's not being used efficiently, then rightly they get very angry. I think when they hear some of these stories, they think the generosity – the hand of friendship that's extended, that's being bitten – I think they start to lose a little bit of faith in the whole arrangement and I can understand why people would be angry when they hear some of these stories.
LEON BYNER:
Can you confirm that Australian Government officials have been informed of 161 offences committed by Manus Island refugees, including alleged sexual assault? Is that so?
PETER DUTTON:
That is the case. So those matters would be referred to the PNG Police and it's obviously an issue for them to investigate those matters and the officers on the island allege they've been assaulted on a number of occasions. As you point out, a number of allegations around a sexual assault of minors, of others on the island. So there is a lot to the story on Manus Island and I've said for a long time that it will take some time for all of the facts to get out, but it seems that some more of those facts are coming out today.
LEON BYNER:
Now, not all of the people of the 600 have done this, so let's talk about them for a moment. Now we're being told that the conditions under which they're living are well below what they should be and we understand there's been a United Nations report that suggests that the places to which you would have sent the asylum seekers or refugees did not have the standard of services that they should have. What do you say to that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's a complete nonsense. The East Lorengau Transit Centre has been open for two or three years and taxpayers of Australia have spent close to $10 million on that particular facility. There's a medical centre that we've provided – again at Australian taxpayers expense – we've worked very closely in trying to move people from the Regional Processing Centre into this centre for some period of time.
Residents have had six months notice and I just…I put it in these terms Leon, which I think's the easiest way to explain it; the Australian taxpayer is like the landlord, we've decided that we would build a new house for the tenants – we've done that, as I say, at an expense of $10 million – we gave six months notice and said that we wanted the tenants out of the old facility because we weren't happy with that facility.
We get to the drop dead date which was the 31st of October. People have trashed the existing accommodation and then they put photos up online of that, expecting people to believe that that's how they've lived for the last couple of years and…
LEON BYNER:
…somebody's no doubt told them to do this.
PETER DUTTON:
Yes Leon and…
LEON BYNER:
…I can't accept that people would come here and do that of their own volition, I can't accept that.
PETER DUTTON:
We've spoken about this for a long period of time. I mean Nick McKim from the Greens was up there, has been up there twice in the last few weeks. There are lots of advocates here, including church groups – many of whom I think are well intentioned in their support of people up on Manus – but there are many who are saying, don't accept the package to go back to your country of origin like thousands have before you, don't cooperate, resist effectively to try and twist the arm of the Australian Government because if you do that, if we apply enough pressure, if we show enough photos of the rooms that we've trashed, that will put pressure on the Australian Government and make them change their policy and bring you to Australia.
That's what they're after and that's been their stated objective for a long period of time. So you've had people like Nick McKim providing advice to people up on Manus Island and that's been well-documented.
LEON BYNER:
Alright. Now, a couple of things here; Jacinda Ardern the New Zealand Prime Minister has said that she'll take 150. Is it the case that you won't entertain that because you believe that eventually those New Zealand citizens would end up in Australia? Is that the reasoning?
PETER DUTTON:
Well there are a couple of reasons. Primarily…and just to give an idea of Operation Sovereign Borders, the way that we've been able to stop these boats – and we haven't had a successful boat now for three years and not had a drowning at sea, we've got all the kids out of detention, we've closed 17 detention centres – Operation Sovereign Borders is made up of 16 different agencies, including ASIS, ASIO, the Australian Federal Police, the Defence Force, Australian Border Force etc.
I take the best advice I believe that a country like ours can provide from some of the best people in the world in this space. The advice to me – and we're seeing it by way of some intelligence out of Indonesia and elsewhere now where there is some chatter around people watching what is happening on Manus Island and whether these people will come to Australia – the advice says that if people can go to New Zealand, they wait there for a couple of years, they become a New Zealand citizen, they can then travel to Australia as a right. New Zealand citizens, unlike any other country in the world – not the United States, not Canada, not the United Kingdom – New Zealand has the ability for people to travel on this 444 visa which allows them entry and exit in and out of our country and that's the difficulty that we've got.
We believe that if you sent people to New Zealand at this point in time that the people smugglers would again be able to say, look; you've only got to wait a couple of years on Manus Island or on Nauru and you'll go to New Zealand – good welfare system there, good health system, good education and housing system – and then you'll be eligible to go to Australia. Our judgement is and the professional advice that I get, the intelligence that I read indicates that that is a very real risk and that's why at this point in time we don't believe it is wise to send people to New Zealand.
But the second point is that within the last 12 months we've stopped a vessel that was trying to traverse across the Torres Strait, come down the East Coast on its way to New Zealand because we know people smugglers market New Zealand as a destination in the same way that they do Australia. They see the two countries synonymously and they see the systems of support; welfare etc as generous in New Zealand as they are in Australia and that's the reality of what we're dealing with.
LEON BYNER:
How do refugee advocates know these boats are coming often before the authorities do?
PETER DUTTON:
In this day and age Leon, obviously with social media and all of the networks that are established, people obviously share intelligence and information readily. If they've got information to share they can do it online or through Twitter or through encrypted apps very quickly and in real time. So that's the reality of the way they can communicate.
LEON BYNER:
Alright. So if we're not going to send any of these – and there are about 447 of them that are apparently refugees, the figures I saw – where ultimately, if they're not going to go to New Zealand and maybe a couple of hundred to America, or will there be more? Where are the rest going to go?
PETER DUTTON:
Well there will be more than that. The deal that we've done with the United States is 1,250 people and they've taken the first 54 and they're in the process of doing interviews now. So we'll see some movement again there shortly.
Under the arrangement that was struck by Mr Rudd and the Labor Party and Mr O'Neill, the Prime Minister in PNG, if people are found to be refugees then they were to settle in Papua New Guinea.
Now, I point out I have not put a single person on Manus Island. My job is to clean this mess up. We haven't had new boat arrivals filling the vacancies that we're creating. The reality is that we are cleaning up Labor's mess and it's costing us a fortune, both financially and in terms of the human cost as well. The Greens and others are happy to see these people stay in the Regional Processing Centre in unacceptable conditions that have been created by the individuals there, simply because they want a political win here in Australia – that is they want to see the Government fold.
You spoke before of the United Nations. The United Nations has always been against the Government's offshore processing and turning back boats and Operation Sovereign Borders. So had these people had their own way, we would have been overwhelmed by literally thousands of boats by now, but the Government has in place a formula which is working. We treat people humanely. We have a big intake of refugees through the UN and through our humanitarian programme otherwise – almost more than any other country in the world – so we do things the right way, but we're not going to allow people smugglers to get back in to business.
We have to be very clear that these people that are on Manus Island and on Nauru, they aren't coming to Australia and I can't repeat that often enough. I'm sorry that false promise has been held out to these people for years through advocates and the Greens saying; just don't engage, don't accept the package to go back home, eventually you will come to Australia. I'm sorry they won't and the sooner that people realise that, the sooner we can get on to making arrangements to go to a third country or go back to their own country of origin – but they are not coming to our country.
LEON BYNER:
Look, while I've got you there as a senior member of Cabinet, there are two things. There's been an announcement that parliamentarians need to declare their status by December one. Can you just clarify what that's going to mean because Australians obviously want this citizenship thing out of the way?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Leon, there's obviously discussions going on at the moment. The Senate is sitting this week but the House of Representatives is not scheduled to come back for another few weeks. So I can't tell you what has been resolved in the Senate this morning, but the proposal announced by the Prime Minister is that Members of Parliament need to sign a declaration, the same as we do when we're declaring our assets and liabilities and whatnot. So, it's that process which has been proposed by the Government and essentially it provides that people need to assert that they are an Australian citizen, that they've made enquiries etc, that they've looked back at their family history and they're satisfied as best they can that they're an Australian citizen.
LEON BYNER:
Thank you for coming on this morning Peter.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Leon. Thanks for having us on.
[ends]
