Subjects: QLD weather; High Court decision; ongoing detention for terrorists.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
RAY HADLEY:
Peter Dutton is the Minister for Home Affairs. He's in Canberra and he's on line right now. Minister, good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
Have you had contact with the family? Is it bucketing down in your hometown?
PETER DUTTON:
It sure is. I guess lots of families will be experiencing the same thing at the moment. Kirilly was saying this morning that it hadn't stopped all night. So our dam's overflowing and there's a fair bit of water around.
I just hope people take care and don't cross those flooded bridges etc. which people sometimes are tempted to do. So welcome to Queensland. Have drought and followed by heavy rain and flood.
RAY HADLEY:
Now most people are perplexed, including the Chief Justice it appears, of the High Court about this decision by majority four-three, that Indigenous people with connections to community and country can't be deported even if they're non-citizens, even though they weren't born here. This is a legal minefield and no doubt you've been taking advice since the decision was handed down. There's an impact on one particular person who must be released. Another person they couldn't determine whether he was Indigenous or not is going to the Federal Court. Where do you go as a Government with this decision?
PETER DUTTON:
Ray, I'm with the Chief Justice. This is a decision of the High Court obviously and as people will know it was four-three, so it was a fairly split decision. The Chief Justice I think has made some very good points; but it's a 170 page judgement and the Attorney-General, our General Counsel within Home Affairs, are having a look at it obviously at the moment.
I think there's significant repercussions and essentially it creates another class of people, which I think is a very bad thing. So obviously we've got to adhere to the law and they've interpreted the Constitution, but for us it makes it harder. There may be other areas – particularly around citizenship or claims that people can now make and no doubt lawyers will try and exploit that – but we'll, as I say, just wait for the legal advice as to what our options are to legislate where we can and to try and restrict the damage.
RAY HADLEY:
Is it possible that you can – with the cooperation of crossbenchers – legislate to in some way usurp the decision of the High Court? I mean, there's no avenue of appeal once the High Court, whether it's four-three or seven-nil, you can't appeal the High Court decision, but can you legislate to in some way negotiate your way around the decision which was split?
PETER DUTTON:
There might be some points of ambiguity where there is the ability for us to legislate. So the short answer is yes, but only in part.
Obviously when we cancel a visa for somebody under section 501 of the Migration Act – and we've spoken about that before with bikies etc. – we do that with what's called a head of power from the Constitution and that's the aliens power. So most countries exert that sovereign right, that they've got their own citizens and then I guess an archaic term, but nonetheless still used, of 'aliens' that is people that aren't Australian citizens and we have the ability to cancel their visas and to deport them from the country.
What the High Court has said here is that they're creating another class of people and that that power within the Constitution doesn't apply to them and the Parliament can't legislate to overcome the interpretation of, or the restriction of the use of the Constitution. So that's where our hands are tied.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. If I could just interrupt, I'm talking to Peter Dutton, but one of his constituents Brent is on the line via 4BC with a very, very important warning.
Brent, just quickly tell us what's happening up there in Brisbane.
CALLER BRENT:
Yeah, just up at Thornside at Rickertt Road there. Like the emergency services or the council has put out road closure signs on Rickertt Road near Chelsea Road and people are just driving straight around the road closure signs onto the opposite side of the road and going through the flooded waters there.
RAY HADLEY:
Strike me pink. We've had this problem with the SES telling us it happens more regularly in Brisbane than anywhere else. Thanks a lot for that Brent.
So look, if there are signs out there, they're not put there by accident, they're road closure signs. Stop disobeying them because all you're going to do is get the emergency services there to pull you out of there and rescue you. For goodness sake, obey the signs.
Minister, it seems to happen more regularly in your home town than anywhere else [audio skip] the flooded causeways, flooded bridges, or in this case, ignore warning signs. It's just stupid.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, it does and when you look at the evidence – I mean people even in four wheel drives – if they think they've got a better chance of getting through some water…it just moves so rapidly and the force of that water…so it can be much worse than just putting the rapid water recovery teams at an inconvenience. People die. I mean there are many documented cases in Queensland and elsewhere where these cars have been swept from causeways etc. and it's a catastrophic outcome. So as you say, police and all of those rescue teams have got an enormous amount of work to do already. So please for your own safety, don't do it.
But I only point out that Brent's on the wrong side of town though, he's not in my electorate, he's on the south side.
RAY HADLEY:
He's not one of your constituents on the north side.
PETER DUTTON:
He's not a north side boy. No that's right.
RAY HADLEY:
He might move based on what you've got on him now.
PETER DUTTON:
He'd be welcome.
RAY HADLEY:
Now listen, one of the problems that we're going to confront – and I've spoken about this a number of times and it was reported in The Australian – we saw the result of a terrorist being released in Great Britain who is now deceased, but not before he knifed some people and the police took him out.
We've got 11 radicalised men back in our streets sometime in 2020 from various governments, state governments, and there's a capacity I guess to detain them for a bit longer, but we can't keep people there forever. There's two or three in particular who are no less radicalised coming out seven, eight, nine, 10 years later than when they went in.
What do we do as a nation with these people? I mean we have laws in place, I understand all of that and we can't usurp those laws that we, you know, if people serve their sentence then they're let out. But how do we protect the community when these lunatics are on the street?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, I think there's a lot that we can learn from the British model. Firstly, we shouldn't be letting people out as they do in the UK and the UK Government's already indicated that they're going move to try and stop that because people were automatically being released at the halfway point or a third of the way or depending on the circumstances and certainly not at the end of their sentence which makes a mockery of the whole thing.
So that's not our system here and I think we've got some of the toughest laws in the country. So the Federal Police, the New South Wales Police, Victorian Police, whatever it might be will look at each individual case. They'll decide what the best response is.
We've introduced a law which is called a Continuing Detention Order; that allows for somebody whilst they still pose a threat – so the police determine and can introduce this evidence into court that this person is still likely to commit a terrorist attack – they can make application to the court for that person to be held in detention for longer than their original penalty. So that is a pretty powerful law.
Beyond that we've got Control Orders; obviously there are a range of different responses that the police can provide and one of the concerns that we've got again, just looking at the US and the UK model and elsewhere, is the radicalisation of some of these people in prison as well and the networks that they form there, forming friendships with bikies where they can source weapons from those groups etc.
So there are many layers where the police will look at this and try and neutralise the threat. But it is a problem for us and we don't have the ability to indefinitely detain somebody, but the Continuing Detention Order I think is a pretty powerful tool for the police to use and they'll use it.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. We're running out of time. Just finally, this weather – and you spend a fair bit of time on the Gold Coast as I do – I've just had a note from one of my fellow members at the Southport Golf Club. Now the course is closed again today. The total rainfall for 2019 according to the golf course's website was 804 millimetres, that's the total for 2019. Rainfall so far for 2020 is 831 millimetres; 831 since the first of January.
PETER DUTTON:
I'll tell you the big thing in Queensland Ray is that we're not capturing that water. So it runs off and ends up out in Morton Bay and it should be captured. I mean this is a massive debate going on in Queensland at the moment. The state government's refusing to build dams. We need to capture that water to provide it for the farmers.
I think it's a big ongoing debate and people will sort of forget about parts of the drought and the impact of that now until the next drought – we're all thinking about flood and rain – but the fact is that there are a lot of areas that are still in drought, so firstly remember them.
Secondly, how do we help drought proof when the rains go away because I mean in Queensland you know, it's the reality and the further North you go the more tropical weather you get. We get these massive downpours and we need to be able to retain the water so that we can direct it to the farmers.
RAY HADLEY:
I'll leave you with one more on the way out the door. Ian, a listener in Sydney says: given the High Court decision, does this open the door to a foreign citizen with Indigenous heritage being able to stand for Federal Parliament? It would appear this decision is somewhat contradictory to previous High Court decisions which played a very strict line on such eligibility. I mean I know we're drawing a long bow, but if the High Court determines that there's an association that doesn't warrant citizenship if you're Indigenous, it means a foreign citizen, you know, could possibly be in Parliament and not breaking the rules.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I hope that's not the case, but as the Attorney-General's pointed out this has got pretty wide ramifications. So let's have a look at it, see what the lawyers say and see what we can do to try and rectify it.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. We'll talk next week. Thanks for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Ray, see you mate.
[ends]
