Subjects: Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation; US-Australian alliance; Abdul Nacer Benbrika; Mathais Cormann.
EO&E....................
PETER DUTTON:
Thank you very much for being here. I’m really quite delighted and honoured to have Ambassador Culvahouse here at the ACCCE today. The Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation is obviously something that has been in the planning for a long period of time. The officers, the investigators, the analysts, people who support the work of the officers here do an incredible job and they’re renowned worldwide.
Part of the reason of the success of the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation is not only because of our domestic relationships with the Australian Federal Police and the state policing authorities, other intelligence agencies like AUSTRAC, ACIC, etc, but it’s also made what it is today, and the success that we enjoy here, is because of the international collaborations.
There’s no greater partner that we have in the fight against those people, those perpetrators who would seek to sexually assault children than the United States of America. Ambassador, I want to say thank you through you to the officers of Homeland Security, of the FBI and other agencies that we deal with on a regular basis in the United States.
The work of the Five Eyes partners, which obviously includes the United States, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, ourselves and Canada, really is quite a remarkable collaboration in the counter terrorism space; the work that we do there, the exchange of intelligence and information in the defence space – obviously there’s a very long-established collaboration – but equally now in this space, to protect children and to deal with transnational crime; the relationship that we have with the FBI, with the Department of Homeland Security is quite remarkable.
Scores of children have been saved from the hands of predators, either in the real world or online, because of the relationship between Australia and the United States. The information that we receive as part of a number of operations that have recently been closed have directly resulted in Australian children being saved, and saved from either currently being sexually abused or would into the future and that is quite a remarkable outcome.
So Ambassador, thank you so much for being here today. Your friendship to our country obviously has been quite remarkable and your service to the United States, both domestically and abroad, is renowned, and you have been a great friend during the course of your term here in Australia.
I'm very grateful for the personal commitment that you’ve given to the relationship with Australia and we really pay tribute to what you’ve been able to do during your period as Ambassador. I hope that you’ll enjoy the opportunity to speak to some of our officers here today because they do remarkable work. This is the toughest area of policing – there’s no question about that – and the fact that they turn up each day and are involved in operations that save children is quite remarkable. I hope they will leave the same impression on you as they have done on me. Ambassador, I’ll ask you to say a few words.
ARTHUR CULVAHOUSE:
Surely. Thank you Minister. It's a privilege to be here today with you. You were one of the first senior officials in government that I met when I arrived in March in 2019 and I really have enjoyed and appreciated working with you in the common interest of our two great countries ever since.
The relationship between Australia and United States is strong indeed. It’s best known on the defence side and the Five Eyes intelligence sharing side, but also the United States is Australia’s largest and most important economic partner.
Here today, we point out the deep and enduring law enforcement alliance and bonds between our two countries. It's my sincere pleasure to visit this centre. I am well advised, Minister, of your strong leadership in bringing this centre to reality. It does important work. It provides law enforcement response to the ever-growing criminal syndicates that operate without borders, beyond borders and it requires a response that is international in scope, and that brings all the resources of our two countries and other countries to bear.
I look forward to the tour here today. The people here do really important work. In my Embassy every week we have a country team meeting and our law enforcement liaisons with Government of Australia, FBI, Homeland Security and our intelligence side, all report on cases that are under review, that are under way, that are either out or about to be brought to a conclusion because of work that our two governments do.
The work that is done in this centre complements work that’s done in the United States in the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children, and that centre has referred over 17,000 leads this year to this centre alone. In response, Australia has referred many leads to us, and there are many, many cases where children that were in the process of being exploited, in the process of being abused, in just a few hours’ time, because of leads on one side or the other, Australia or the US, US to Australia, where children were rescued from severe exploitation and abuse.
So, this is a great alliance story. Thank you for your leadership. I look forward very much to the tour I'm about to receive and to hearing all the good work. I bought our law enforcement team with us today just to thank your Department, to thank the AFP, and thank all the good people here for being such good partners and allies and doing in every respect some of the most important work that could be done in the world of law enforcement.
PETER DUTTON:
Ambassador, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, I might just invite questions of the Ambassador in relation to the centre. There’s another matter that I wanted to cover, but I might do that after the Ambassador’s answered any questions and stepped off, and then I can cover that issue then. So, is there any questions of the Ambassador?
QUESTION:
Mr Ambassador, it’s not about the centre, but can we please get your view on the 14-point list of grievances China has with Australia.
ARTHUR CULVAHOUSE:
It's an interesting list, you’re talking about the Wolf Warrior list in Canberra. Look, I'll be a little bit undiplomatic. I think that list reflects instances of the Government of Australia standing up for its own interest and furthering the national interest of Australia. I'll probably let the Government of Australia respond to it, but I don't think you would ever see – let me say it more clearly – you would never see a United States Embassy hand such a list to a reporter in Australia. That is not the way to do diplomacy. That is not the way that one should deal with concerns. It should be done government-to-government and that sort of interference I don't think you would see the United States engage in.
QUESTION:
While we’re on other topics, what’s the future for you here? Will you be hoping to head back to the US for the holiday period and will we see you back here after that?
ARTHUR CULVAHOUSE:
I'm a political Ambassador, a political appointee. I understand those rules. Political Ambassadors, almost without exception, return home when there is a change of Administration and I expect between now and January 20 that I’ll be heading back to the United States.
QUESTION:
What do you make of the way the election has played out back at home for you? We’ve seen Donald Trump launch numerous lawsuits for example, your New Zealand counterpart was slightly critical of him coming out and claiming victory in the election before the votes have counted. Do you agree with that criticism?
ARTHUR CULVAHOUSE:
Look, maybe the only advantage of being as old as I am, is I’ve been involved, until this year, and I am prohibited by Federal Law from engaging in personal political activity, but I’ve been involved in every Presidential race since 1976 and what I will say about this process, it’s a process that’s playing out according to our Constitution.
The states are certifying or counting all the votes, they’re certifying the victors, with the view of our electoral college, which is a somewhat novel institution, we’ll meet in Washington on 14 December to pick the next President of the United States, that person will be ratified by our Congress on 8 January, then we will formally as a constitutional matter, have a President Elect. But in the interim, the General Services Administration has ascertained – an interesting word – that former Vice-President Biden should have all of the benefits of transition and the current Administration has pledged its cooperation.
So I think if you look at Bush v Gore in the year 2000, it was 37 days before we got to this stage which we’re here now. So, by that standard, if you’re old, this is not unusual, not remarkable.
QUESTION:
Ambassador, just on the centre here, at the official opening the Minister had some quite strong words to say about Facebook and encryption, and how that was, sort of, hurting your prospects of investigating some of these crimes. What’s the US Government’s position on that sort of encryption, and what are they doing to perhaps get more cooperation from the tech giants?
ARTHUR CULVAHOUSE:
Well that’s an issue that is under very careful review. I don’t want to engage in domestic Australian politics so I’m best to refer back to Minister Dutton. But as the social media companies have grown in size and scale, as more and more leads are to be found in those venues, it’s an issue that I would hope and expect that US social media companies would cooperate fully with US, Australia and international law enforcement to allow us to, you know, think about what we’re talking about today, to allow us to rescue children from the hands of people who would harm them and exploit them.
There has to be a way through that somewhat fraught minefield. In our country, we have the First Amendment, which is a barrier to law enforcement, in this country there may be less impediments.
PETER DUTTON:
Thank you very much Ambassador.
I just wanted to update you in relation to a matter that’s currently before the court, but in November 2005, Abdul Nacer Benbrika was arrested as part of Operation Pendennis, some of you will have a memory of that.
The court heard that Benbrika spoke of killing 1,000 people to achieve the groups objectives. He was charged with possessing a thing connected with the preparation of a terrorist attack and in February 2009, the Supreme Court of Victoria sentenced Benbrika to 15 years’ imprisonment with a non-parole period of 12 years.
His sentence was comprised of one term of seven years for intentionally being a member of a terrorist organisation, one term of 15 years for intentionally directing the activities of a terrorist organisation, and one term of five years for possession of a thing connected with the preparation of a terrorist act.
Benbrika appealed his conviction sentence, as you’d know, but today I can confirm that on the 20th of November I cancelled the Australia citizenship of convicted terrorist Abdul Nacer Benbrika.
He’s the first individual to have lost his citizenship onshore under the terrorism related provisions of the Australian Citizenship Act of 2007 and given Benbrika no longer holds Australian citizenship, he’s granted an ex-citizen visa by operation of law, under the Migration Act.
Benbrika has been notified of his citizenship loss and he’ll remain in prison whilst an interim detention order is enforced, pending the courts consideration of the application for a continuing detention order.
I do want to pay tribute and thank all of the law enforcement officers and agencies who worked on Operation Pendennis. This was the most significant counter-terrorism investigation in Australia’s history and it no doubt saved countless lives.
I can confirm today, also, that 20 dual-nationals cease to hold Australian citizenship as a result of their engagement in terrorist conduct, but he is the first onshore, as I point out. .
So I’m happy to take questions on any of these matters.
QUESTION:
Minister, you mentioned the continuing detention order, so has the Government applied for that order in relation to Benbrika and is it still underway?
PETER DUTTON:
It’s not a matter that I’m going to comment on because it’s before the court at the moment. But the Commonwealth’s made its position very clear in relation to the risk that we deem Benbrika still to pose to the Australian public – and don’t forget, this is a very serious conviction, and the penalties highlight that – so we believe that it is appropriate, in this circumstance, to take the action that we have, and that’s before the court at the moment.
QUESTION:
Lawyers have raised concerns that this would effectively take Benbrika out of the reach of Australian authorities working to defend in the future, is that a concern for you?
PETER DUTTON:
My concern is to keep Australians safe. So in this instance, he spoke about thousands of Australians being killed, and that’s what he advocated at the time. He’s convicted, obviously, in relation to those matters and it doesn’t matter who it is if it’s a person that’s posing significant terrorist threat to our country, then we will do whatever is possible within Australian law to protect Australians, and that remains our priority in relation to Benbrika, we’re taking action in the court at the moment that we believe will give us the best opportunity to keep Australians safe.
QUESTION:
Sorry, Minister, just a question on a separate matter, should taxpayers be funding a RAAF plane to help Mathias Cormann get a job with the OECD?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, the short answer is yes – and I remember speaking with Richard Marles about his many trips overseas on behalf of Kevin Rudd at the time, for advocacy for votes within the United Nations – and that’s entirely appropriate.
It would be a very significant win for our country if Mathias Cormann is able to achieve the outcome. For us to have an influence in the OECD, particularly in a period of recovery after the COVID virus – so over the next five to 10 years – the world economy is going to have an incredibly important impact on Australians – and for somebody as successful and as credentialed as Mathias Cormann to be at the head of that organisation, to speak with the knowledge that he’s obtained as having been Australia’s most successful Finance Minister, I think would be a great win for Australia and I think it’s something we should be very proud of, but there’s always a cost that’s associated with the visits, and with the lobbying that goes on to get the requisite votes to take that position. I hope he’s successful because that would be a great outcome for Australia.
QUESTION:
But you’re confident the taxpayers would think it’s okay that it’s their financial, I guess, their cost to bear?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I think Australians understand that there’s a cost associated with us lobbying and becoming successful in this outcome because if we are, if Mathias is successful in obtaining that job at the OECD, that is a great win for Australia.
Now, internationally at the moment Australia is already compared very favourably with a number of other countries. Given the handling of the virus, the early decisions we took in relation to closing the border with China first, and then with the rest of the world, and the way in which we’ve been able to respond in our health system and to manage people coming back across the border, or indeed to depart to our international borders. So I think Australia has a big role to play in the world to provide support to other countries, to make sure that the world economy is in as good a shape as it possibly can be – as I hope we rebound from COVID as soon as possible – but there is a cost associated with that, and I think on that basis Australians would support it.
QUESTION:
Just back to Benbrika for a moment, has he appealed the citizenship decision?
PETER DUTTON:
Well he’s been made aware of it and what he does next is an issue for him.
QUESTION:
And how many of the applications that the Government has made for continuing detention orders since 2017, how many of those have been successful?
PETER DUTTON:
I think it’s important in relation to this issue to point out that there are a number of ways in which the Federal Police, particularly where they’re working jointly with the state police authorities, or indeed their international colleagues, where they make a decision to either seek a CDO or to disrupt, or potentially arrest somebody for, you know, sort of on an Al Capone basis, so if there are other offences that they have committed, where they could be sentenced and sent to jail, there are a number of ways in which they can deal with that threat.
Now, we’ve cancelled passports for example of people who are offshore, which again, is another containment method. We’ve gone through each of the individual cases of those people that we think are the highest risk – there are many – and we know that there are many who are emerging that we’re concerned about, that ASIO and others are dealing with at the moment and they will look at, with the advice of the Australian Government Solicitor, each of those cases, and we will implement a plan that we think is the best way to contain that threat.
QUESTION:
But, specifically, on continuing detention?
PETER DUTTON:
That’s the only thing I’d have to say in relation to CDOs.
QUESTION:
[inaudible]?
PETER DUTTON:
As I say, I think if you look at the way in which we look at each individual case, I think that’s actually a better way to have a look at it.
QUESTION:
So, does that mean those continuing potential orders are…they’re redundant?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it means it’s an option in some cases, but in other cases there’s a better way to deal with that individual.
QUESTION:
Well, in how many cases have you made those applications?
PETER DUTTON:
Well again, I think if you look at the individual cases, it may be that the CDO is available to us, but we haven’t sought that outcome because there’s a better way to deal with it and in my judgement, and on the judgement of Director-General of ASIO, the best way to have a look at that.
QUESTION:
So have you sought that outcome at all?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I’ll just refer you back to what I said.
QUESTION:
If there is no successful appeal, would you be looking to remove him from the country as soon as possible, even if there was time left on his prison time?
PETER DUTTON:
If there’s the ability to remove threats from Australia or to stop them coming back to Australia to commit a terrorist act here, then of course we would look at any of those options. It would depend on the home country, it would depend on the period of incarceration that might still have to be served, but generally speaking people would serve out their sentence and then be deported or be placed into immigration detention until they can be deported from Australia. The more that we can stop these people from coming back to Australia, the quicker we can deport these people, the safer the Australian public remains.
QUESTION:
I know you referred me back…
PETER DUTTON:
…if it’s on this topic, I’ve got nothing further, but if there’s another issue, I’m happy to answer that question.
QUESTION:
Alright. Well I do have another question.
PETER DUTTON:
Okay.
QUESTION:
Do you think the military should go ahead with the raw stripping of medals from the Special Operations Task-?
PETER DUTTON:
That’s an issue for the Defence Minister or the CDF to answer. Thanks very much.
[ends]
