Subjects: Establishment of a Home Affairs portfolio; three years since last people smuggling venture; new border technology; 501 cancellations; Parliamentary terms; Citizenship of politicians.
E&EO……………………………………………………………..
RAY HADLEY:
Speaking of former police officers, in the studio with me is a former police officer and Immigration Minister Peter Dutton. Minister, good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning, Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
Now, you've spent a week in Home Affairs, how's that week gone?
PETER DUTTON:
My hair hasn't grown back, I can tell you that much.
RAY HADLEY:
I'd say you've aged a bit in a week, haven't you?
PETER DUTTON:
That's what my wife says, but no, it's been a busy week. I had good meetings yesterday in Canberra with the heads of a couple of the agencies and we're doing all of that work in the background and they're obviously still ramped up in a number of operations and the work they do is amazing, so it's a great honour to be in this portfolio, but you're right, a lot of work.
RAY HADLEY:
Now, I'm just thinking about how you go getting across all of it and there'd have to be some order there. So do you talk to individuals, heads of departments one by one?
Is there an agenda where you go through it? You can't do it ad hoc, you've got to do it in some organised fashion, surely?
PETER DUTTON:
The position at the moment is Minister-designate, so the Federal Police still reports to Michael Keenan and ASIO is still reporting to George Brandis etc. So there's no disruption at all to any of their operational activities, but there is a taskforce in the background that's looking at the way in which the new department will be structured.
Obviously I have phone calls, discussions with, meetings with the heads of the agencies when they need to advise me of information or intelligence or operations that they're involved in. So that continues as it has done with Border Force.
In Operation Sovereign Borders we've got 16 agencies that are involved in that. So you can sit people round the table, obviously video conferencing and all of that secure means of communication means that we can stay in touch pretty easily.
They're good people and they're running the organisation. They're independent, but they obviously have a lot of involvement with the Ministers and with the department.
RAY HADLEY:
Three years today I'm told since the last boat arrival, is that correct?
PETER DUTTON:
That's correct. I think it's a great achievement. It's full credit to my predecessor Scott Morrison and the former Prime Minister Tony Abbott and obviously Malcolm Turnbull and I have been keen to do whatever we can to stare down the threat.
We've turned back 31 boats over the course of the last three years. Nobody's drowned at sea. Kids are out of detention. It's a pretty good outcome. I'm really proud of it. I think as a country we should be really proud of it because we've been able to turn around what was a dreadful mess. But the biggest point to come out of all of this is that the threat hasn't gone away, the boats are still there, people are still trying to put ventures together.
Look, it's going to be an enduring problem for while ever you have people wanting to come to our country illegally and there's a lot of great work done by successive people, the Commanders and the people that are in charge of the different segments of the operation, so full credit to them.
RAY HADLEY:
I note you've made an announcement today about new world leading border clearance technology for people arriving in Australia by air. Now, is this effectively what they do in the United States of America by looking into our eyes, is it that sort of technology?
PETER DUTTON:
It's going to be world leading. So even more advanced than some of the stuff you'll see in the US…
RAY HADLEY:
…oh really?
PETER DUTTON:
It's a $22.5 million investment Ray and there'll be 105 additional kiosks and some to replace the existing ones. So for people who are coming off planes, so arrivals into international airports, will feel the benefit of this. So we often get people queuing, long delays, this will be a big improvement on that situation.
We have about 40 million people who cross our borders each year. Within three years that increases to 50 million people. So enormous volumes over the coming years with the increased numbers of people coming as tourists and visitors and all the rest of it.
So the idea is the technology now will allow the facial recognition to take place at one of these kiosks. If you've got a readable passport it will mean you don't even have to present the passport and eventually - as we've discussed, I think on the programme before - the technology will allow that face to be recognised as you hop off the plane. You'll go out, pick up your luggage and keep going. You won't be interrupted at all.
RAY HADLEY:
So are you saying that they come, you know, when we queue up and you've got Australian citizens here, others over there or vice versa in other parts of the world, that you can go there, you won't have produced the passport, they'll take you photo so to speak and that facial recognition will bring all your details up on the computer screen. Is that how it's going to work?
PETER DUTTON:
Correct and it will just green light and you’ll go through. Because the reality is if you look at a load of people coming off an A380, for example, there might be four or five people that Border Force has an interest in in intercepting and the rest lawful people, passengers, Australians returning home whatever, that can go about their normal job. So hopefully it will reduce some of that stress at the airports.
RAY HADLEY:
I spoke earlier this week about two men with links to outlaw motorcycle gangs who remarkably now don't have any connections with them, remarkably.
You cancelled their visas in December last year. They've now won a last minute court bid to stay in Australia. Three judges ordered the two men be immediately released from Immigration. One of them I know comes from the South Pacific. The other one, I think, comes from East Timor of all places. They're to be released immediately. What happens next?
PETER DUTTON:
Well there's a process to go through where my Department will have a look at the judgement and there may be that there's another decision to make in relation to this matter, but …
RAY HADLEY:
…I know you don't want to talk about it because you'll get yourself into strife, but in general terms, can you usurp the decision of the court?
PETER DUTTON:
Well just speaking generally - putting these matters aside - you can remake a decision. There's certainly the prospect of that in many cases for it to be reconsidered and the Department will be having a look at this case in particular at the moment to determine what the next course of action might be.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. Now while you're working on those two fellows, that cab driver from Melbourne found guilty of indecently assaulting a female passenger, Jagdeep Singh. Now I think the Admin Appeals Tribunal gave him a few more chances. I believe he was placed on a jet and sent back to his native India. Is that correct?
PETER DUTTON:
That's correct, he's gone and we're a safer society for him having departed. So this is the benefit of the visa cancellations that we have. I believe that the work we're doing not only provides integrity around our visa system; that is if you're a non-citizen and you're coming to Australia you abide by the laws and if you don't, you have your visa cancelled and we've ramped that up dramatically as you know. And I think it means that women are safer because these people are being deported. People with a track record of having sexually assaulted Australians don't deserve to stay in our country.
RAY HADLEY:
Now I had a yarn with Graham Richardson yesterday and your name popped up about a piece he'd written in relation to the rather quick agreement by the Prime Minister with the Opposition Leader on four year terms - which of course has to go to the people before anyone can do anything about it - but he said that you might be in a bit of strife in your own seat, your federal seat of Dickson in Brisbane.
How much time can you spend there, given all the other responsibilities you've just taken on? I mean you're going to have a battle, as you've had previously with that seat.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, my seat's been a marginal seat forever. I mean Cheryl Kernot held it and I won it from her in 2001. I've held it now for 16 years and before that, it had only ever been held by one side of politics for one term maximum. So I've got some great people - supporters, staffers - on the ground and we've got an incredible support network.
So look I spend as much time as I physically can, as any Minister can, in their electorate and Graham Richardson will know the reality of that. I try and get back Friday, Saturday, Sunday, in the electorate to come back out sometime Monday or Tuesday, generally to Canberra or Sydney or wherever we're going.
But there's a lot of work that we do nationally that's of benefit to my electorate as well. So we were able to get the funding through for the university, there'll be a new university at Petrie in the north of my electorate, well over $100 million. I don't think we would've got that without the leverage I can use from being a Cabinet Minister. So there's lots of local support for outcomes that we can get.
The biggest issue for us at the moment are these third parties. Not even the Labor Party which ran pretty dead in my seat in the last election against GetUp! You've got these third parties, they're getting money from people like George Soros and others from overseas. The CFMEU donate to GetUp! GetUp! was formed with Bill Shorten on their board so they benefit Labor and the Greens. So mate, we've just got to counter their attacks.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. As Immigration Minister and as a senior member of this Government, do you think the founding fathers when we framed the Constitution were looking at the sort of people we're now identifying - be it a Green, be it a Liberal, be it a Labor Party person - in relation to where they were born and where their loyalties lie?
Now we can talk - let's forget about Canavan, because it's pretty close to you - we'll talk about Larissa Waters. She's in Canada with her parents or - I'm sorry, her parents are in Canada, her mum's pregnant, gives birth in Canada. They’re there studying. She stays there for 11 months. Within a week of her birth, the law is changed so that you have to opt out as oppose to being opting in. She doesn't know that. She doesn't do anything about it. She then has to resign because she holds - inadvertently and unknown to her until recently - dual citizenship.
Now Canavan's a separate story again, but it's still the same thing. It could well be that he holds citizenship with both Australia and Italy and that'll be determined by the High Court.
But do you think the intention was when we framed the Constitution, to eliminate such people from participating in Australian politics?
PETER DUTTON:
Ray my honest answer is no. I don't think that was the original intent. The reality is though that that's the law and that's the way it's been interpreted. So I suspect originally it was looking at the people that may have been aliens coming here from another country that didn't have allegiance to, or true allegiance to, our country and was obviously drafted in a very different age and in an uncertain time in many ways.
So the reality is though that the onus is on the individual to check their circumstances, to go back, and I do think many of these people are caught up in an unintended way, but that's the way the law is. Now the question is to change the Constitution, would there be public support for a modernisation of that …
RAY HADLEY:
…It's not an easy process, it's a referendum….
PETER DUTTON:
….of course and people are fairly cynical about giving politicians any additional advantage or power or whatever it might be. So it might be difficult to get up, but perhaps there's a common sense argument that it needs to be amended. But at the moment, the onus is on people to undertake those checks themselves.
RAY HADLEY:
I mean, there's a whole range of people from all sides of politics. There's Greens, there's people from your side of politics, there's Labor politicians at the moment who are sitting on the sidelines saying we're not going to declare anything. One Nation are tied up in this by Mr Roberts and I guess they're all anxiously waiting for the High Court to determine if there is a way to negotiate around this without resigning from Parliament.
PETER DUTTON:
I think that gives clarity to it. I think that's the beauty of going to the High Court and getting clarification to see what their interpretation is and then people will be bound by that.
RAY HADLEY:
In relation to the Lower House, I mean, all the attention is on the Upper House at the moment because it's Senators who've come under - two Green’s Senators and now a Liberal Senator - but it could dramatically change life in the Lower House if someone from your Party particularly was shown to be in default in relation to citizenship because it's a very delicately balanced House at the moment.
PETER DUTTON:
Well that's a reality. It's a margin of one and if it was an Independent, somebody on our side, somebody on the Labor side, it does change the dynamic there and particularly on our side, as you point out. So that's the reality of the numbers.
RAY HADLEY:
Alright. As always, thanks for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Ray. Pleasure mate.
RAY HADLEY:
Where are you travelling this week? You all over the place?
PETER DUTTON:
I’m back to Brisbane tomorrow morning. So a day in the electorate tomorrow and there over the weekend and I think Monday and Tuesday as well.
RAY HADLEY:
How many kids have you got?
PETER DUTTON:
I've got three.
RAY HADLEY:
What ages?
PETER DUTTON:
Fifteen, just turned 13, although actually believes that he's 16 or 17 …
RAY HADLEY:
… I know that.
PETER DUTTON:
…and our youngest bloke is 11.
RAY HADLEY:
How often do you get to see them?
PETER DUTTON:
Well mate, they lead pretty busy lives. So sometimes I break my neck to get back there on a Wednesday afternoon …
RAY HADLEY:
…you get brushed do you?
PETER DUTTON:
They're running out the door, saying, see you dad. You know I seem to be the one that's sad about being away and having rushed back. But mate you've got to marry well in this business and I've got a wonderful wife in Kirilly. So she runs a pretty strict household particularly for boys. So the big thing for them is sport, so I try and take them to training on a Friday night and try and be there at their game on a Saturday. They're pretty good kids so I'm really lucky.
RAY HADLEY:
So it's difficult, given that you're in other parts of the country and sometimes other parts of the world, but often you, for example, say for families either in Brisbane or Sydney particularly who may live an hour and a half from where they work, they leave home at half past four in the morning, they get home when it's dark, the kids are just about ready to go to bed.
And so the contact in normal sense between a father and children or a mother and children - depending on who the bread winner is - can be minimal because of just circumstances. So to a certain extent politicians are a reflection on the community generally about how much time they can devote their children given that they have to earn an income.
PETER DUTTON:
I think that's right and look I actually think we get it pretty easy compared to some of the Defence families. I've got a lot of Defence personnel who live in my electorate. In some cases mum and dad deployed for six months at a time, grandparents are looking after kids and young families.
So I get back - missing the kids during the week is one thing, but being away from them for five or six months is a different story altogether. So yeah you've got to put it into perspective.
RAY HADLEY:
Thanks for your time, as always.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Ray.