Subjects: Commonwealth Games overstayers, NSW anti-terror laws, ABC staffing for the Royal wedding, Queensland Nickel.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
RAY HADLEY:
We speak most Thursdays to the Immigration Border Protection and Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton. He's in our Sydney studio. Minister Dutton, good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
Now, I've got a stack of emails when May 15 – rather I should say the date, I think it was midnight 15 May came and went – about these people who came here for the Commonwealth Games.
As you and I have discussed previously, quite a number of them did not compete which would make you suspicious about their reasons for coming here in the first place. Athletes from Cameroon, Uganda, Rwanda and Sierra Leone remained here.
Now, we've always spoken about 19 or 20. Someone's saying now that it could be 100 athletes unaccounted for. Are you aware of those reports?
PETER DUTTON:
I've seen the reports. There were about 13,500 visas that were issued to start with.
This happened in the 2000 Commonwealth Games, at the Melbourne games as well. Look, there's an operation underway at the moment Ray and whether it's Olympic Games in Sydney or whether it's Commonwealth Games in Melbourne or the Gold Coast or whether there's a big conference, we get people who overstay.
If people have made a claim for protection that is they claim they're being persecuted, they will generally be put on to a bridging visa until their claim can be assessed and then if they're found not to be owed protection then they're on a plane out of here.
RAY HADLEY:
See, I think I glean from what you've said and what I understand that we've got up to 20 who absconded from the village, having some of them not competed, but given there are all these visas issued there may be some of us who did compete, but then did not return home and so, I mean they had until May 15 midnight to return home and it appears that up to 100 have not returned home.
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, but there can be some people who have got visas for other reasons. So they might have stayed on for business reasons, for family reasons, there may be extensions. But as I say, at the moment there's an operation underway that Border Force will seek these people out, if they're not in contact with them already.
And the thing that people should remember as well is there'll be a three year ban put in place stopping people to come back if they're staying outside of their visa conditions. So it's in their best interest to contact the Australian Border Force now. But ABF will be rounding these people up and deporting them as quickly as possible.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay, you say as quickly as possible. However, are they any different to anyone else that comes here either legally or illegally in relation to the challenges they can mount legally to usurp decisions made by the Immigration Department?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, once they're here on our soil, they're into our system, so that means they get the legal protections. And like most Australians, I shake my head sometimes when you look at the conditions and the protections. Some of these people have more legal rights than Australian citizens themselves.
And talking about the AAT, I mean that's an area where we're trying to look at reform at the moment and ways in which we can improve that system because at the moment it costs us a lot of money and it goes far and beyond what is a reasonable day in court and hearing of a case and people stretch these matters out for a long time.
RAY HADLEY:
I guess it depends where they come from, but are these areas – Cameroon, Uganda, Rwanda, Sierra Leone – are they danger areas at the moment given the people travel here freely to compete in the Commonwealth Games?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there are a couple of things that you'll need to look at. I mean, one is the in-country advice from our Embassy or our High Commission within some of those areas to determine whether or not there is actually a threat.
And then they'll look at the individual circumstances, so whether somebody claims that they're being persecuted for a particular reason. So it may be that the country they're coming from doesn't have conflict or its okay for them to return, but they claim that they've got a gripe with the government for example or some other threat that they might face.
RAY HADLEY:
Cameroon, a top weight and high handicapper in all of these things – whether it's now or previous games in Melbourne and all over the world, you know, where they go to a western country. Is there any thought that maybe the Commonwealth heads of government, in terms of the Commonwealth Games as opposed to our heads of government, can get together and say: 'well look I'm sorry these people come as our guest, but they must return when they're supposed to return?'
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think that conversation takes place, I think there's also an element of transaction cost when you hold a Commonwealth Games or if you have a conference of 5000 people here from Lions or Rotary...
RAY HADLEY:
…….oh sure……
PETER DUTTON:
...or whatever it might be and you'll end up with generally about half a per cent of the numbers who will overstay or that there'll be problems with and they've committed an offence while they're here, they've had their visa cancelled etc. So you're right, I think those approaches can be made. What good comes of it Ray, you know, you can make your own judgment.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. Just back to the AAT which is made up of three layers including the Refugee Review Tribunal. There was a story about them yesterday that I referred to where at the end of the day the decision can be yours and yours alone, once all the avenues of appeal have expired. Is that generally the case that at the end of the day it comes back before you and you direct what happens next?
PETER DUTTON:
That generally can be the case. But it can then go on, as I think we discussed before, into the courts. So the AAT is not a court. It can then go into the Federal Court, the full Federal Court and then on to the High Court.
RAY HADLEY:
So it just keeps going on and on and on.
PETER DUTTON:
Correct.
RAY HADLEY:
Now, there's a story today in News Limited and I have a fairly intimate knowledge of the story in that this is the younger brother of a rather notorious family of rapists dating back to 2002. Now, as I understand it, at the time of the rape of this young woman in Ashfield by his siblings, he was only 12, but he's come to the attention of authorities. He's become the first target of strict New South Wales anti-terror laws to keep him behind bars after his sentence has expired.
My understanding is the man and the family were born overseas, but we simply can't remove him from the country after his sentence expires despite the fact that he may have come here as a child. Is that the case?
PETER DUTTON:
Look, I don't know the detail in relation to the individual. But if the person is not an Australian citizen then there is the capacity to cancel the visa on character grounds or there's some other sections under the Migration Act where I might be able to take action, but I don't have...
RAY HADLEY:
…no I know it's without notice and I don't expect you to have an intimate knowledge of the case like I do because I followed it closely and the whole scenario is just dreadful, but I can't go into it because of suppression orders. But at the end of the day you do have that power. But if the bloke is an Australian citizen then that power is then removed?
PETER DUTTON:
Correct. If he's born here then...
RAY HADLEY:
…but what about if he's born elsewhere, but acquires citizenship here?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, in that situation it depends on whether or not at the time of a declaration, that declaration was false or not is one consideration. So if an offence was committed before, but the sentencing hadn't taken place before citizenship had been granted there is some provisions under the Act – it's rarely used – but there are some provisions there if somebody is naturalised if you like or becomes an Australian citizen then they might be subject to cancellation.
RAY HADLEY:
Are you going back home on Saturday or will you be travelling somewhere else?
PETER DUTTON:
I'm back home this afternoon.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay so you will be sitting down with your wife and watching the Royal wedding I suspect?
PETER DUTTON:
I think I probably will actually yes. I'm a bit of a royalist.
RAY HADLEY:
Is that a decision that you'll make or is she making it on your behalf? And when I say she, I'm talking about your wife.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, my beautiful wife Kirilly…
RAY HADLEY:
…..good sucker.
PETER DUTTON:
…who's probably listening.
RAY HADLEY:
…hello Kirilly.
PETER DUTTON:
I'll get that line in. Well, I might be able to, if there's a glass of wine on offer, I suspect she'll probably sit down, but I don't know that she'll sit down for the whole Royal wedding otherwise.
RAY HADLEY:
I would advise you that there are three games of rugby league on at the same time; one at 3.00, one at 5.30 and one at 7.35. Maybe you can have 4BC on the background listening to the football while watching the Royal wedding.
But the reason I talk about that – and my colleagues at Channel 9 and I'm under contract to them and Channel 7 – they've sent hordes of people over there to cover the Royal wedding and that's a commercial decision for the people who run those TV stations. I'm not paying for it, they're paying for it via sponsors.
But the ABC. Now I mentioned earlier when I went to London in 2012, I had occasion and previously to go to the ABC offices and there seemed to be a horde of people both for radio and TV there. A larger contingent, because it's a pretty big centre and they needed to cover Europe as well as London, all the rest of it. But the ABC has sent Annabel Crabb and Jeremy Fernandez to the UK, business class, which would be part of their contract. It's a bit difficult for the ABC to be whinging and whining about no more funding, but they're happy to send a couple of presenters business class and producers and camera crews I suspect, to London for the Royal wedding.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, you can be generous if the taxpayers are paying, if you're not footing the bill. I'm a bit conflicted because I like Annabel Crabb, I think she does a great job. But why they need to send people across when they've already got correspondents in the UK is beyond me.
If you have a look at the largess of their studios at the ABC, these bonuses that they've just paid out, I'd love to know the criteria for receiving a bonus at the ABC, as to what you need to achieve in the ABC to get a bonus, but no doubt they'll be able to answer those questions.
RAY HADLEY:
I'm conflicted by bonuses at the ABC because they don't care about ratings, either radio or TV ratings, because they're not in competition with commercial operators. And so therefore, they don't attract advertising on the ABC that is. They do on the SBS organisation.
So I'm a bit conflicted by how and why they would get a bonus of any amount, given they don't care about the ratings. So is it predicated on the fact that you turn up every day on time or perhaps stay an extra hour then you're paid to stay? I don't know how.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there's a public service mentality within the ABC and the ABC is left-leaning, there's no question about that.
So people need to recognise that their taxpayers' dollars are going into the ABC. Now, the ABC's bleated at the time of the Budget, because there was not an increase as they had expected in their funding and they'll have to find savings over the next couple of years, but that's an issue for them. And when they're competing in a space against commercial operators, then I think they have a particular responsibility.
In rural areas where it's difficult for private media companies to set up or it's not feasible to have a TV crew in an outback area somewhere, well, the ABC has a responsibility to provide coverage in that area. But particularly in the digital platform where they're competing against private enterprise at the moment, I think they're at a real advantage.
RAY HADLEY:
Look, just a question without notice about Queensland Nickel, because it's in your home state. They collapsed two years ago with debts of $300 million, 800 people in Townsville out of work.
But I got a note from a firefighter in recent times concerned about his and his fellow officers' safety. There was a fire last month at Clive Palmer's nickel refinery – or he used to own it – on April 24 in fact. Emergency services were called there, the Black River District Rural Fire Brigade crews discovered four separate fires, but had difficulty accessing the area due to soft ground and dense scrub.
There's a skeleton staff remaining there, they helped the crews to clear bush tracks and front-end loaders were brought in, but it's about the chemicals that are stored there. There are ongoing concerns about the dangerous chemicals and machinery not being maintained.
So we made a couple of phone calls and we had contact with the people from the fire brigade in Townsville. Their senior officers based in Brisbane don't have a problem with it. They said: 'oh, no, it's fine'. And the Government in Queensland doesn't seem to have a problem with it. In fact, no-one seems to have a problem with it except the people that go and fight the fires and it is a really important issue and I'd like you to take up the issue on
behalf of these firefighters, because I don't want to be reporting sometime in the foreseeable future that one of them is seriously injured, or in fact killed, because they're dealing with dangerous chemicals that are being left in limbo at this particular site.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, no-one wants to see that, so let us follow it up with the Queensland Government today and see what the story is and we'll come back to you.
RAY HADLEY:
Yeah. We spoke to Workplace Health and Safety in Queensland, supposed to inspect the site every three weeks, if they're aware of the potential risk of chemical fuelled fires and sulphur explosions. They said a number of things. Basically it was: 'mind your own business. They've been inspected and found to be adequate.'
And I would maintain that they're inadequate, the protections to the men and women who have to go there and fight the fires. So I'll get my staff to pass it to your staff and we can take it from there.
PETER DUTTON:
Righto. There's all the number of Clive Palmer billboards popping up around the place as well, which is strange. I'm not sure whether Clive's…
RAY HADLEY:
…In relation to what?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it's a picture of Clive, usual thumbs up, I think, talking about making Australia great again. So I'm not sure whether he's ready to relaunch his party or what's going on. So anyway, strange set up.
RAY HADLEY:
Clive Palmer, strike me pink. As I've said many times, that there are many people who'd appreciate not being under the same sort of pressure that Clive's belt buckle is these days.
Yeah. I've just pulled it up here. Clive Palmer not making political statement, we promise. I've got the photo there in front of me. It's an old photo when he did lose weight before he put it back on.
Clive Palmer's not making a political comeback, despite the former MP funding hundreds of billboards around Australia with the slogan: make Australia great. The bright yellow
billboards which feature a photo of Clive giving a thumbs up aren't political, but a call to Australians to improve the nation.
Well, perhaps what he could do is pay the 800 people that lost their jobs in Townsville. That would make Townsville great again.
PETER DUTTON:
Well that's what needs to happen in Townsville and a lot of workers ended up on the wrong side of that deal and there's a lot of anger still up there in Townsville. So we'll have a look into the issue and come back to you Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay, thanks very much.
[ends]
