Subjects: CCTV upgrade for Burnie region; migration program; people smuggling venture; Thai cave rescue; US resettlement agreement; Braddon by-election.
EO&E.......................................................
BRIAN CARLTON:
Joining me on the line is Federal Minister for Home Affairs, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, Peter Dutton in Burnie.
Bit damp there at the minute Minister, how are you?
PETER DUTTON:
It is Brian, good to be with you mate. Well it's good to have the rain, as you say. It's not as cold as I thought it would be…
BRIAN CARLTON:
…no. Oh look, if you came down 24 hours earlier, it would have been – you would have been telling me a fundamentally different story. It was quite a mild night last night.
Tell me, CCTV for Waratah Wynyard Council specifically. What are we – what is the CCTV for?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, there’s a program that we've got federally through the Safer Communities Fund, where we provide funding predominantly to local councils for hotspots that they identify, where there may have been a series of crimes that have taken place, either assaults or robberies, car thefts etc…
[Phone line drops out]
BRIAN CARLTON:
Oh we've fallen into the awful Tassie black hole. I tell you what Minister, if you want to stump up some funding. Alright we've – yeah we've definitely lost the Minister there, that lines gone. If we can just fix that, that'd be great. I won't do anything in the meantime, we'll just wait for the Minister to call back in or us to get him.
Let me try and get the Minister back here. We've got him back on the line. Peter Dutton, the Minister for Home Affairs, Immigration and Border Protection. One of those now infamous Tasmanian mobile spot black hole things Minister sorry.
PETER DUTTON:
It came up with a message saying the number had been disconnected. I'm not sure. Have you paid your bill or not?
BRIAN CARLTON:
…yeah no, we totally have otherwise you wouldn't be on the air now.
Okay. Sorry, so back to the cameras, they're specifically for what? Crime, I call committed by the two per centres – those of us out there who just don't give a damn about the social amenity. Those sort of people, yep?
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah that's it mate. I mean, people want to go out to restaurant precincts, walk down malls, go to the local shops, go down to a park with their kids on the weekend. They just want to do it safely and so the CCTV network – which obviously Brett Whiteley's been pretty keen to so funded here – we've done that with $134,000, as you say, in Waratah Wynyard and also 60,000 for the Bernie City Council.
So, we're working with those councils and I think it's a common-sense outcome. It's not millions and millions of dollars, but it will make a big difference to local communities and we've found that these $60 – $100,000 CCTV projects result in people being arrested, crime rates being reduced in local areas and I'm sure that's why Brett's been so keen to get it.
BRIAN CARLTON:
It's just a bit of a deterrent factor, a little bit of a deterrent factor and if it is no deterrent factor at least we've got some forensic evidence that (a) the crime was committed and (b) the chance of identifying the perpetrator. It's funny, 20 years ago we were having a discussion about whether we wanted CCTV in public places. Now it's like, bring it on please because the benefits sort of outweigh the privacy issues for most people these days.
Minister, if you don't mind, a couple of other things. The front page in The Australian today, your Senate colleague Dean Smith is urging the Government to have some sort of wide ranging Senate review into the number of people we import on an annual basis.
Overwhelmingly, according to a Newspoll today, Australians of all political stripes want fewer migrants. Would you think that's a good idea?
BRIAN CARLTON:
Well Brian, this is off the back of the announcement that we made where we've reconciled the numbers from last year. So there was a ceiling of 190,000 that we planned for during the year and we've done a lot around scrutinising some of the applications. We're worried about issues around fraud, worried that people claiming that they had qualifications for a particular job when they didn't and we've really cut back now. So the final figure's been reconciled at 162,000, so down by about 30,000.
Now, Bill Shorten's been critical of that, but I think the vast majority of people want to make sure that we've got integrity in our visa system. It's no different to the work that we've done on protecting our borders, stopping boats and I know Justine Keay and Nick McKim have got views that are perfectly aligned here.
But I think the vast majority of Australians want us to have an orderly migration program, integrity in our migration program and numbers that are sustainable. So, we want to try and get people to regional areas if there's work there, or otherwise out of capital cities wherever we can.
So we’re listening to all of that and I think we can have a look at ways in which we can improve the system into the future, but there are significant changes we've made over the course of the last couple of years.
BRIAN CARLTON:
So rather than a broad brush reduction in numbers, you're looking at being, what, a little more selective about who comes in?
PETER DUTTON:
I think that's right. I mean, we abolished the 457 program, which was Labor's program to bring in foreign workers because it ended up having people in McDonald's and KFCs and whatnot and I want Australians to fill those jobs first.
So we want to try and reduce youth unemployment in particular, as quickly as possible and you can't do that if you're bringing in foreign workers. But equally, we know that in some regional areas where particularly if you've got fast economic growth, you just can't fill those positions with Australian workers, then we want to bring people in – generally on a temporary basis – to fill those vacancies and that way the business can still be profitable, other Australians employed in the business can still be employed and that's how the migration program should work.
Labor got themselves into this position where they had 190,000 as a target. So toward the end of the financial year they were ticking and flicking applications through and I just don't think that's in our national interest.
So we've done that on top of cancelling the visas of a record number of outlaw motorcycle gang members who are involved in drug distribution, people that have been involved in sexual offences against children and women and people that have committed crimes otherwise.
So they're really our three pillars – making sure that we stop boats, kicking out criminals that have committed offences and that we've got integrity in our migration program.
BRIAN CARLTON:
So on that basis, you think the numbers about right and the Senate inquiry is not worth it, no value?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I'm happy to have a look at any proposal, but we've just had a pretty broad ranging inquiry with Treasury and my Department of Home Affairs to look at some of the issues.
And one of the legitimate issues is how we deal with state governments and plan with state governments around infrastructure, around housing and how we work with councils and on planning matters. So look, there are many elements to it.
So if we can form a judgment, I suppose, that if something new is going to come out of an inquiry we can have a look at it, but at the moment I think we've got the number about right. It is down by 30,000.
So if Mr Shorten goes to an election promising higher migration numbers than what the Coalition does – and that's a big point of difference – and, as I say on boats, there's a huge difference between the Labor Party and the Coalition. Justine Keay is, I think, further out to the left than some Greens on border protection policy and I just don't want to see kids back in detention.
We've got kids out. We've closed 17 detention centres and we've now had 33 boats that we've turned back. So, as people see in Europe, the problem hasn't gone away. People smugglers are still out there. So we don't new arrivals on the sea either.
BRIAN CARLTON:
Yeah there was a boat arrival intercepted, I understand, last week heading our way. Where was that from, do you know?
PETER DUTTON:
It came out of Indonesia. So it was crewed by Indonesians and had Chinese nationals on board. Only a couple of months ago, we were able to work with the Malaysian authorities to stop a boat from departing out of Malaysia. It had 131 people on board a steel-hulled vessel and as I've pointed out before, if even five or 10 of the 30 boats had got through, you would have seen hundreds follow behind.
So this is a problem that's ongoing for our country. Just because people don't see it in the headlines at the moment doesn't mean that the problem has gone away and Mr Shorten's promise to change our border protection policies, it's just bad for our country. I mean, we don't want kids back in detention, we don't want the 1200 deaths at sea again that Labor presided over.
So we've got a lot of equity in making sure that we keep Operation Sovereign Borders operating well.
BRIAN CARLTON:
Some interesting language being used by some of the media here too. I notice SBS and the ABC consistently describe those who jump on boats from certain parts of Africa heading towards Europe, Italy, for example, they're being described regularly as migrants. Now, a migrant to me is somebody who goes through the formal process of making an application and goes through the normal channels to become a migrant. Other than that, you're something else.
Do you worry about the sort of language and the normalisation, if you like, of people just willy-nilly upping stumps and moving to another place because it's better?
PETER DUTTON:
Well there's a big movement within the world at the moment, particularly pushed by the Greens and others, that we should have a borderless society, that people should come and go from countries as they wish and that is just a recipe for…
BRIAN CARLTON:
…dear oh dear.
PETER DUTTON:
…anarchy as we're seeing in the United States at the moment. Migration's playing a big issue there, it's playing a big issue in Europe.
And for a country like Australia, where we've got a generous welfare system, people are provided with all sorts of support, people smugglers do market it in that way and that's why we need to keep control of our borders.
BRIAN CARLTON:
I know this is not entirely your portfolio area, but it sort of dovetails. The planned talks between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in Helsinki; do you see any change in the way the world works as a result of that meeting? I know there's not a lot of detail as to what they're actually going to talk about, but what's your take on it? Curious.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Brian, just a general comment; I think for our country we need to have a strong America. We need to have a continued relationship with our Five Eyes partners and the United States is crucial to that. So intelligence that we receive about potential terrorist threats in our country, we've been able to thwart about 14 potential terrorist attempts over the last few years and some of that information will come from the United States, from the United Kingdom or Canada or partners otherwise. So it's important for any country to have a dialogue, to make sure that problems be managed.
And Vladimir Putin for a number of years, you know, in Crimea, across Europe otherwise, has tried to exert influence, has in some circumstances been successful and we need America to stand up to that and America will always be a solid friend of our country.
As I say, we never know what the next 10 or 20 or 50 years will hold in our region and we need to have good alliances with those countries. And the Home Affairs Department is working closely with our friends at the moment in the US, the UK and elsewhere on critical infrastructure. We're worried about making sure that our dams, our electricity networks are protected, our communications networks and there's a lot of work that the Prime Minister's been putting into that as well.
BRIAN CARLTON:
Okay. There's a couple of other issues, if I may. Can I touch on the good news story of the past week, which is the rescue of those young boys, the soccer team in the cave in Thailand? A significant – and I mean genuinely significant – presence from the Australian Federal Police. You must be incredibly proud of our people. You must be.
PETER DUTTON:
I am mate to be honest. We had six divers across there and obviously a team leader as well, a doctor, who's done an incredible job, Defence, the Department of Foreign Affairs. And again, it's one of those demonstrations where we're well respected and people recognise the level of expertise that Australia has and that we've built up within the Australian Federal Police, within the agencies across the Department of Foreign Affairs.
So I am very, very proud of the work that they've done and I think all of us were anxiously awaiting the safe extraction of the children and the coach and fortunately - not perhaps against odds - it turned out to be a positive story. But those officers will be properly recognised when they return home.
BRIAN CARLTON:
So there'll be, what, some sort of recognition from the Federal Government? What form might that take?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we're just discussing that at the moment. So the Prime Minister and I were talking about it the other day, about how we can give recognition to the officers because they have gone above and beyond and they've saved lives and they've enhanced our relationship greatly with, again, a key economic partner, a key partner in the exchange of intelligence in Thailand. So on many levels, they've done our country very proud and my sense is that we should recognise that.
BRIAN CARLTON:
Richard Harris, affectionately known as Harry, there's been plenty of calls for him to be the next Australian of the Year. I don't think you'd get too many arguments.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I suspect those guys could be in line for all sorts of international awards or recognition. And in the end, I suspect they know themselves the difference that they've made and I suspect they don't seek any kudos. But they know what they've done and now the world does and they and their families must be very proud.
BRIAN CARLTON:
I'll leave you there on a good note.
Look, we could talk all day about indefinite detention and how long that might last. We can talk endlessly about attempting to negotiate deals with the United States and other countries to take these people. But Minister, just generally, for all the support for the turn back program and for all the support for the offshore processing – and there is, we kind of get it, I think most Australians sort of generally understand it – the idea that people are sort of stuck there for an indefinite period of time does sort of stick in your craw somewhat and I know it sticks in yours too. What's the plan? What is the actual plan?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Brian, a couple of points. I mean, I didn't put anyone on Nauru, but my job is to get them off…
BRIAN CARLTON:
…yeah no, I do understand the background to all this. I genuinely do.
PETER DUTTON:
And so, when you look at the situation, we've spoken to literally dozens of countries and we've got a deal with the United States where they will take up to 1200. We had another group of people moved off Nauru on the weekend so we're slowly working through the number.
And under the deal done between Mr Rudd and Prime Minister O'Neill at the time, if people were found to be refugees on Manus then they could settle in PNG.
Iran won’t issue travel documents for Iranians unless people want to voluntarily return.
And it's clear from all of the intelligence that if you bring people to Australia from Manus and Nauru then the boats will restart and this is why Justine Keay and Nick McKim just don't make any sense on boats. Because if you allow the boats to restart, you'll end up with the kids drowning at sea again.
I've not had one death at sea on my watch and last year we had the biggest offshore intake into our migration program in decades. So if we do things the right way and we can manage the process, we can continue to be compassionate.
But I want to get everybody off there tomorrow, but I need to be realistic about the fact that if their home country won't take them, if the United States won't take them and dozens of other countries say that they won't take them and we know that if they come to Australia the boats restart – that's the dilemma we face. So there's no easy solution to cleaning up this mess.
But if we allow the boats to restart and that the vacancies that you're creating now are refilled with new arrivals, the US has been very clear they will not take people off new boats. This is a one-off deal and there are no other countries lining up to take people. We need to be realistic about that and we are working through it as quickly as we can.
We're providing a lot of support to the PNG Government, to the Nauruan Government, to provide services, education, all the rest of it. No women and children on Manus. So we're working through all of that.
But the worst possible outcome is to soften the policy approach that we've got and to allow boats to restart because people will be in detention, kids will be in detention and that's the outcome of advocates like Justine Keay and Nick McKim because it just doesn't work.
We've looked at ways in which you can change the policy settings and all of the intelligence advice that I receive says leave it exactly as it is at the moment.
BRIAN CARLTON:
Yeah, even the mutterings of the New Zealand backdoor being used caused a bit of a flurry in boat activity at the time and there was just a mere muttering of it potentially changing. Look Minister, I won't take up too much of your time.
One final question: should your candidate Brett Whiteley win the Braddon by-election, it'd be the first time such a thing happened in Australian politics, in my understanding, in 98 years. Do you have any confidence that he can win it?
PETER DUTTON:
I do and I've worked with Brett before obviously when he was in the Federal Parliament. I find him a thoroughly decent bloke. I think he's delivered for his local community before. He's part of a Government that can deliver.
Bill Shorten can make all the promises he wants with Justine Keay, but you've got to vote twice for him before anything could possibly be delivered.
So having Brett as a member of the Government does mean that he can get things delivered for his local community and I think he's a person with strong values, with a strong belief in his local community and in my experience they are very good credentials for a local member who can deliver through the Turnbull Government. He has direct access to Ministers, obviously including myself and I hope I can get there on the 28th. I'd encourage people to vote for him.
BRIAN CARLTON:
Alright. Minister, another dozen-odd issues I could happily spend an hour or so talking with you about. I appreciate the time you've given us this morning. Thank you, appreciate it.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Brian. All the best mate.