Subjects: Putting Australian Workers First – abolition of 457 Visas; Tony Abbott.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Minister, good afternoon.
PETER DUTTON:
Good afternoon Raf.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Why are you doing this now?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we’ve had a big problem, as we’ve documented over recent times, with foreign workers coming and taking jobs from Australian workers. We want to make sure that we can prioritise Australian jobs for Australian workers and in the case where a job can’t be filled by an Australian worker, that job can be filled by a foreign worker.
So the problem is that the 457 programme became quite unruly when Labor was in government and we’ve been able to make some changes initially to tighten it, but ultimately the 457 brand I think was completely trashed. And that’s the reason, in part, that we’ve made the decision that we’ve made, the announcement we’ve made today.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
How do you prove that you can toughen the testing for the labour market testing? How do you prove that you can make that harder?
PETER DUTTON:
Well at the moment there’s no mandated requirements. So most occupations are exempt from labour market testing. We mandated that testing under both the short term and the medium term streams.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…the two year and the four year.
PETER DUTTON:
Correct. And the employer will have to advertise, have to demonstrate that they can’t get an Australian to fill the job.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And forgive me Minister, but can they just stick something on Facebook for a few weeks? How do the – when have you not done what is mandated and required?
PETER DUTTON:
They’ll need to – it’ll depend on the industry and where, for example, they would normally advertise for employment. So it needs to be a genuine attempt to advertise for a job and that’s the process and the enforcement that the Department will provide.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So you could dob someone in if you think – or you could say listen, I don’t reckon this employer advertised properly?
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah sure. People can contact the Department if they believe there’s any visa fraud or any exploitation of the programmes that we run. They should contact the Department of Immigration and provide all of that detail and it will be properly investigated.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And what, a higher standard of English, can you expand on how that will be enforced?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, so at the moment – just to go back a step – there’s an existing four year 457 Visa Programme, so people who apply for the 457 Visa can come here for four years and essentially that takes you, eventually, to a permanent residency and then onto become a citizen.
What we’re proposing is that there is a two year short term stream under the Temporary Skills Shortage Visa and a four year medium term and the two year will have no option of going on to become a permanent resident. They can make application through other visas and what not, but there won’t be that transition into permanent residency.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…so they would need to leave the country before they applied for permanent residency?
PETER DUTTON:
That’s right, that’s right. So the four year is targeted at more highly skilled vocations. For example, some of the categories are within the health industry and some higher skilled vocations are the people who would come under the four year medium stream. So that’s the difference in the two.
So there is a higher level of English proficiency required for the four year medium term stream and slightly lower for the short term stream. So that means that we’re not mandating, you know, an absolutely proficient use of English as the standard, but people need to have a competency which is, under the test that’s conducted, is at a level five. So there needs to be that English language requirement…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…a higher level.
PETER DUTTON:
…a higher level and there’s also a requirement for at least two years of relevant work experience in both of the new visa categories as well and that wasn’t …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…so that means they need to have done their job for two years in another country before they come here? Okay.
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, yes and that will give an advantage to graduates in this country going out to work in those jobs as well and it will also mean that that’s a change from the current 457 Visa Programme where there’s no experience, no work experience necessary at the moment.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And just some of the categories, I mean, there are a lot of people texting me and saying are cooks now no longer on the list, are café managers no longer on the list, are nurses no longer on the list; they’re all still part of this?
PETER DUTTON:
…well, there were 651 occupations on the list before and we’ve taken 216 off. So the whole list is up on the Department’s website...
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…yeah I was just trying to go through it before.
PETER DUTTON:
…so if particular business owners or employees or people with interests want to go through the list…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…but nurses Minister? Are nurses still – you can still get one of these two year visas for nursing, for teaching, for cooking?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, as I say Raf, without going through the individual categories, people are best to go and have a look at the list of the couple of hundred that are there.
But there is a significant tightening of that and really what we’re trying to do is target where there is need, where there is a skills shortage, that we can fill that if an Australian worker can’t take that job up.
But unapologetically, we’re saying that this announcement today is really about putting Australians first in terms of getting Australian jobs and if an Australian is not available for that job, then fair enough, the employers can advertise, go through the criteria that we’ve spoken about and fill the job with that person.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Peter Dutton, are there extra enforcement resources to ensure these rules are stuck to?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes we’ve got Operation Cadena which operates at the moment. So it looks at worker exploitation and you’ll see from time to time media scrutiny of, or media attention in relation to some of the raids…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…but how long has that operation been around?
PETER DUTTON:
It’s been around for the last six or twelve months, so it’s a joint operation between my Department, between Tax, the Australian Federal Police, and…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…and forgive me, is that extra people?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, yeah. And so it doesn’t just look at the visa breaches for example, but we are concerned with companies’ phoenixing – so setting up under a new company name
– we’re worried about not just worker exploitation in the agricultural industry, but movement of sex workers, of people across a number of sectors that may find themselves exploited by unscrupulous individuals.
So there’s a lot of effort that goes on and, as I say, if people have information then it would be great if they can call the Department.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So is this going to…I mean is it going to go a long way towards ending the exploitation because, you’ll know, you’ve been criticised about this from the Right and from the Left; there are a flood of complaints about this visa class being exploited. Is that going to significantly reduce now because you’ve promised that before and it hasn’t happened?
PETER DUTTON:
I think it can and I think if you look back to the experience when Labor was in government, they were doing deals with McDonald’s and KFC and Hungry Jacks and other fast food outlets to bring workers into those restaurants and we highlighted that that really shouldn’t be allowed because we wanted young Australians taking up those jobs.
So we made a number of decisions in tightening up the 457 programme, but in the end, our decision was that the brand of the 457 visa was beyond recovery and we made a decision that given the amount of change that we wanted to make to it, we were better to abolish the 457 Visa Programme and bring in a much tighter programme which put Australian workers first.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Do you think you should’ve done this earlier, abolish the name, if it’s so tarnished?
PETER DUTTON:
I think we were right in trying to clean up Labor’s mess I think it had really descended into …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…it has been your system for four years.
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it descended into something that we determined wasn’t recoverable, we made changes and in the end I think this system which does put Australian workers first will be applauded. And I think if there are problems, if there are difficulties around exploitation across any visa category then we want to stamp that out and we want to have a visa programme which has its integrity intact and if we do that, then I think people will provide greater support to the sorts of decisions that we’ve made today.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Is Tony Abbott making Malcolm Turnbull’s job harder?
PETER DUTTON:
I think Tony Abbott’s got the ability to provide public comment. He’s a former Prime Minister, he’s a backbencher, he’s a member of the Government and he can answer for his own comments, his own positions.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But you’ve got to prosecute the Government’s agenda. Tony Abbott was all over the media yesterday. Does it make the Government’s job harder?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I’ve got a job to do today Raf and that is make the announcement to the abolition of the 457 programme.
I think, as you point out, there are people on the Left and people on the Right who have criticised it, which in politics normally tells you that maybe you’ve got it pretty much nailed on the head. So…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…nut One Nation’s actually claiming credit for this policy as well. They say you’re moving towards their …
PETER DUTTON:
…well, of course they would and, as you say, there are people on the Left who have criticised the announcement today as well. So I think we’ve tried to get the balance right here and ultimately I think people want to see wherever it’s possible young Australian workers, or Australian workers per se, going into Australian jobs and if we can’t fill them then we can go through a number of hoops to try and find a worker from overseas that can fill the job on a temporary basis.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Surely though it makes the Government’s job harder? You speak to Ray Hadley, who’s a commercial broadcaster in Sydney, I think every week on a Thursday. If Tony Abbott’s on the same station as you, he’s a backbencher, every Monday, hammering the Government, surely it makes Malcolm Turnbull’s job harder?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Raf, as I say, the commentators can commentate. My job is to talk about the successes we’ve had in my portfolio, that’s my area of responsibility. I’ll let others commentate on sort of political machinations.
But from my perspective, we’ve stopped people drowning at sea, we’ve got every child out of detention, we’ve brought in 12,000 from the Syrian and Iraq conflicts, the concentration that you would’ve seen in the media only a couple of weeks ago in bringing the Yazidi women in I think has been a significant and very proud achievement of this Government.
So I’ll let the critics criticise and the commentators commentate, but from my perspective, there is a lot of good work that we’re doing behind the scenes and I think the announcement today continues on with the desire of the Government to make sure that we can get kids into work, to make sure that we can preserve those jobs for Australians and that’s the announcement today.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Thanks for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure Raf, thank you.
