EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
NEIL MITCHELL:
His 30th consecutive losing poll. It is entirely different to when Turnbull replaced Abbott after 30 losing polls back in 2015 because there was an option, or seen to be an option to Abbott which was Malcolm Turnbull standing behind him with a big knife. There is no option to Malcolm Turnbull. I don't think Julie Bishop is up to it. I think Scott Morrison is still struggling with Treasury and Peter Dutton isn't ready yet. He might be one day. But look, I caught up with him earlier – this is a recorded interview – the Immigration Minister Peter Dutton, seen as an option as Prime Minister. He's on an aircraft now so I had to record this. He does want to be Prime Minister one day no doubt and I reckon if you have a listen to this, he has been trying to hose Tony Abbott down a bit.
But I began the interview by asking…he voted for Tony Abbott back in 2015….he voted for Tony Abbott……and I started off by asking him whether he was right or wrong to vote for Tony Abbott.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I voted for Tony Abbott because he was the leader of the Liberal Party and I pledged my loyalty to him and I offered my resignation to Malcolm Turnbull at the time. And when the now Prime Minister offered me a position in his Cabinet, I only did so on the condition that I would be loyal to him and that stands today.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well that's fair enough, but was it the right decision? Would you be in government now if Tony Abbott had taken you to the last election?
PETER DUTTON:
Neil, speculation about would we be in government if…..you know…..if Peter Costello had have taken over earlier than John Howard…..woulda……coulda…..the fact is that we've got the contest between Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull at the moment and we must prevail in that contest.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Is it right you could lose your seat, the way the figures are going?
PETER DUTTON:
Like any seat Neil, Dickson's always been on a knife-edge. It had a one-term curse, famous one-term curse, when Cheryl Kernot had only held it for one term, Michael Lavarch for one term, Tony Smith for one term.
I've held it now for 17 years so I've got a good track record I think, locally. We work hard, got a good connection and understand the community well. So I've withstood swings before and I'm doing a lot in my local area. So I'm confident, without taking it for granted, that I can win the seat and win it well. But like any marginal seat, if there's a swing on then anybody can be drawn into that. But my intention is to make sure that we win the election well, whenever it is next year and that's what I think we're all hoping for.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Is there genuine pressure on Malcolm Turnbull? I mean, he did say 30 bad Newspolls. Here we have 30 bad Newspolls. I think, unlike Tony Abbott, he hasn't got anybody standing behind him with a knife, but is there a genuine pressure on him?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think there's always a pressure on leaders in any of these situations. There's no question about that.
Malcolm says he regrets having used the 30 Newspoll statement and you can see he's been honest about that and I think it's a test when you can stand up and say that you've made a mistake, you've learnt from it and you move on, and that's, I think, an important thing.
But for us now, we need to concentrate not on polls and not on who likes whom. It's about what is important to the Australian public and at the moment people are paying huge amounts for their electricity bills each quarter, they're worried about jobs for their kids.
And you've got a Labor Opposition who's promising a tax on housing, a tax on small business, a tax on pensioners and a tax on electricity and that's a big contrast between what Labor is offering – which is basically a Left, green, Jeremy Corbyn-style approach – compared to what I think is a middle-of-the-road sensible approach that supports families with small businesses.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Yeah, but despite all that, the polls are bad. The public doesn't agree with you. I mean if Labor's as bad as you say, why the hell are they thrashing you?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think people tune out to be honest Neil and as the election draws nearer, I think people will start to focus again and I think people will start to focus over the next months.
People lead busy lives, they're running kids around to school and sport and they've got work and the rest of it and I think they hear it going on in the background and that never favours an incumbent government. And then I think people start to have a look at their own situation, what's in the country's best interest and on neither test could you give Bill Shorten a tick.
And I think as people, in the back of their minds, really get that niggling feeling about Mr Shorten, that there's something that doesn't add up. He's had a shonky past as a union leader and I don't think he's been able to shake off that for a long period of time and I don't think he will because I think there are serious questions about his integrity and his background and I think people have that niggling suspicion that something's not right when it comes to Bill Shorten and I think that's part of the hesitation.
NEIL MITCHELL:
What do you mean his integrity? Why do you question his integrity?
PETER DUTTON:
I think there are all sorts of questions around Bill Shorten's integrity when he was a union leader doing deals with big business; big business paying money to unions whilst the union workers missed out on penalty rates; donations not being declared. He's got very, very close links to the CFMEU, the most militant union in the country. Lots of questions and the trouble is that he's been able, I think, to escape beneath the radar and I can promise you there will be a lot more attention on him because I think he's unfit to be Prime Minister of this country.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well what are you saying? Will it be a personal campaign? Is the election campaign – and much of its starting today, perhaps – is it a personal attack on Bill Shorten?
PETER DUTTON:
I think it's a personal understanding of each candidate and I think that's a crucial part. We live in an age where we have a quasi-presidential election. The leaders do matter. Yes, members matter in their local seats, what they've delivered, how hard they've worked, how credible they are, but in the end, a big part of the decision around voters on Election Day in Australian federal elections is based on the leadership qualities of the two candidates.
NEIL MITCHELL:
So just to go back to the 30 Newspolls, was Malcolm Turnbull wrong when he said: 'we've lost 30 in a row, you can't recover from that'. Was he wrong?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think Malcolm's said himself, quite clearly, that he shouldn't have said that and he regrets it.
NEIL MITCHELL:
No, but is it right that you can't come back from 30 in a row?
PETER DUTTON:
No, I don't think it's right and I don't think history demonstrates that.
I mean I was a Minister in the Howard Government and there were plenty of times we were down on the mat and we were able to climb back and I think particularly in the modern age politics can turn on a dime. I think there are issues which can change votes overnight and as people start to realise that Labor's proposing a tax on housing, a tax on electricity – I don't even think people are starting to hear these messages yet and I think that really will tighten things up and I think we can win the election.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Would you agree the Tony Abbott's commentary is not helping?
PETER DUTTON:
Look Tony's a personal friend of mine. I've never said a bad word against Tony and I won't. He was the Prime Minister of our country and he lost that position and you can understand why, at a personal level, he hurts and he believes that he was robbed of that job and that's perfectly understandable and there's no sense stepping back from that.
NEIL MITCHELL:
True, but I mean Jeff Kennett makes the point today – and Jeff Kennett's points aren't always valid – but this one's not bad where he says: Tony Abbott, it's time for your remember whether you're fighting for the Liberal Party or yourself. Have you had a chat to Tony Abbott and said: c'mon mate, back off a bit?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Tony's been very clear about the fact that he doesn't want Bill Shorten as Prime Minister – and with all due respect to my good friend Jeffrey, Jeffrey loves to make a comment, loves the media attention that flows from it, but as you rightly point out Neil, I wouldn't always put every dollar you've got behind the comment Jeffery's making.
NEIL MITCHELL:
But have you had a talk to Tony Abbott and said cool it a bit?
PETER DUTTON:
I wouldn't go into private conversations I've had with Tony. I have a great respect for him. He's a former leader and Prime Minister and, as I say, still a very dear friend.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Well that's why you're in a position. He's a close friend, you've worked with him, you've been loyal to him and on behalf of the Liberal Party you could lobby him.
PETER DUTTON:
And Neil if you've had that sort of relationship with somebody, you don't talk about private conversations on the high-rating Neil Mitchell show.
NEIL MITCHELL:
I take that as a yes then?
PETER DUTTON:
You should take it as I don't comment publicly on private conversations.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Fair enough. Look thank you very much for speaking to us. One last question. I did ask this when you were in, but you'd still like to be Prime Minister wouldn't you?
PETER DUTTON:
And I've been very clear about that and I think people are best to be honest about their ambitions. There are 149 people in the Federal Parliament, I'm one and I think the other 148 – if they're being honest – would tell you if the opportunity came their way they'd be interested as well.
But for me, I want to be working hard in my Home Affairs portfolio, succeeding there and then if the opportunity comes one day then it will be a great honour.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Would you like to be Opposition Leader?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I think John Howard would tell you that was the worst job in politics, but again, you don't…in politics, like in life, you don't always get to choose timing and jobs. I think you do the best you can at the time and opportunities come along or they don't.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Why would you want to be Prime Minister when you see what's happened to Tony Abbott, what's happened to Malcolm Turnbull, what's happened to Kevin Rudd, what's happened to Julia Gillard? Why in hell would you want to do it?
PETER DUTTON:
Because you're patriotic Neil. I mean people go into public life because they love our country, they want to defend our values, they have a set of beliefs that they want to see sustained for the next generation, care for kids and for families and you want to see people succeed, you want to see peace prevail in our country, you want to see opportunity and people rewarded for hard work.
There are lots of reasons why you would want to lead a great – what I think is the greatest country in the world – and that's something that, as I say, many parliamentarians aspire to and I think opportunities can come. But for me, as I say, loyalty is important and I've made a virtue of that.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Is it a passion to be Prime Minister?
PETER DUTTON:
I think, again, for anyone that goes into Federal Parliament… similarly if you're playing cricket – dare I say – for the Australian cricket team or for the Wallabies or for the Diamonds, whoever, most people want to captain that team. And again I don't think there's any sense in lying about that. That's my honest view.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Would you tamper with the ball or put some sandpaper out to get to be Prime Minister?
PETER DUTTON:
I don't think there's a great history that proves that that's the way to conduct yourself and I think people that do regret those bad decisions. I think you're better off to conduct yourself with dignity and I think respect flows from that.
You don't have to be liked in politics. I've never seen politics as a Big Brother episode or as a reality TV show. You need to make tough decisions and people respect you in the end I think for sticking by your beliefs and sticking by your convictions. And if you want to be a populist and want to try and please everyone, you'll end up doing nothing in politics and I think in the end those people don't survive.
NEIL MITCHELL:
Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Thanks for talking to us.
PETER DUTTON:
Take care Neil. Thanks mate.
[ends]
