Subjects: Same-sex marriage; closure of Manus RPC; Queensland state election.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
DAVID SPEERS:
Peter Dutton, thanks very much for joining us this afternoon here at Broncos.
PETER DUTTON:
Speersy, welcome to Queensland. It's great to have you back.
DAVID SPEERS:
Lovely to be here in the Sunshine State. We'll get to the Queensland election in a moment.
I just want to start on the same-sex marriage postal survey. This was your idea originally. Did it play out the way you envisaged?
PETER DUTTON:
Not even in my wildest dreams did I think we'd have the number of people that have participated…
DAVID SPEERS:
…an 80 per cent result.
PETER DUTTON:
… I think it's been a phenomenal success. Look, I argued from the start that given this was a significant social change that people needed to have their say, and if there was to be change, that it was a greater legitimacy to it if people had voted for the change. Some people didn't like it, didn't agree with it at the time, but I thought it was the right process to go through and I'm pleased that we've got a result resounding one way.
DAVID SPEERS:
Yeah, it's a clear result nationally.
PETER DUTTON:
I think that's a good outcome.
DAVID SPEERS:
And it's a clear result in your seat as well. I think it was over 60 per cent yes result. So you'll vote yes?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, and I said that at the start. I said, look, personally I would vote no, which I did in the actual ballot, but I don't believe that I can advocate a democratic process and then not adhere to the outcome. So I will vote yes in the Parliament and I've been very clear about that from day one.
DAVID SPEERS:
Will you be pushing for or supporting extra religious protections on top of what's already there in what's known as the Dean Smith bill?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we're working through the detail of that now. I think given that we've got millions of Australians who didn't vote for same-sex marriage, that there is some concern perhaps about elements that they learned about during the debate or some other issue that they've got, so I think we need to work through what are sensible changes.
I think you can get bipartisan support for those changes. Dean Smith's bill obviously is the starting point for that, and like we've done with previous votes over the years where it's not that people are bound on party lines, but that they have their own say, I think we'll work through each of those independent amendments and then the bill will go forward in an amended form.
DAVID SPEERS:
George Brandis the Attorney-General has flagged a couple of amendments. One of them is to ensure that civil celebrants, not just the clergy, can say no to a same-sex ceremony. The other one is to protect free speech, I suppose, that people would still be allowed to express an opinion against same-sex marriage.
PETER DUTTON:
I think this is important when you look at the debate as it's played out in parts of Western Sydney, for example, where there are significant ethnic communities who obviously have voted en masse and I don't think their voices should be discounted. Now, whether it's about expressing a particular view; I mean we live in a democracy and people rightly can express their view or wrongly – I mean we cop nonsense, you know some fact thrown at us each day and a lot of rhetoric – so we live in a democracy; we should welcome that.
DAVID SPEERS:
Would those two amendments go far enough?
PETER DUTTON:
Well let's have a look at the detail…
DAVID SPEERS:
…you're not worried about protecting the bakers and the florists and so on?
PETER DUTTON:
I want to see each of the amendments and then I'll make a decision on those.
DAVID SPEERS:
But fundamentally, is that a concern for you, people who may want to say no to a same-sex wedding service?
PETER DUTTON:
I think once you've got a law that's in place, I would find it hard to discriminate against a particular person on any basis really. I think if you're involved in baking cakes or you're involved in the commercial provision of services otherwise, then you don't discriminate as to who comes through the door of your shop. So there are sensible religious protections that are required. I want to make sure that proper parental protections are in place as well because I do think this Safe Schools movement will use this debate as a launching pad for their next wave – that is a genuine concern that I think a lot of parents have.
DAVID SPEERS:
So do you attach that to the same-sex marriage bill or is that something – Safe Schools – you can deal with later on?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think there is a future debate, now that we've dealt with the issue of same-sex marriage around a religious protections bill. Frank Brennan's spoken about one such model. Now, I don't support a bill of rights, but I do think peoples' fundamental beliefs, their religious beliefs, whether I'm religious or not, doesn't matter. I want people to be able to practice their own faith, regardless of whether it's Christianity or any other religion or no religion at all and I want them to do that without fear or favour and I want an environment where that can happen.
DAVID SPEERS:
But the important thing is you could deal with all of that after you've dealt with same-sex marriage?
PETER DUTTON:
Well potentially. I think let's wait to see what happens with some of the amendments within this bill. I think that's important, but I do think there is a future debate, now that people can't say that this future bill will be related to or somehow an attempt to stymie same-sex marriage. I think now that we've got that issue resolved it will give us the ability to have a free discussion I think in the New Year about whether or not there is support for a religious protections bill, and I think that's important.
DAVID SPEERS:
Now, I did read in The Australian this morning a report from Simon Benson that leading conservative Ministers Peter Dutton and Mathias Cormann have come under pressure from colleagues over claims they walked away from earlier commitments to guarantee robust religious protections. The same story from Simon Benson went on to note that Treasurer Scott Morrison is now leading behind the scenes negotiations on this. Is that right?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's not. Look, I mean people will want you to go further. There were some people who weren't happy that I wasn't out there speaking more forcefully in the run up to the plebiscite vote. I'd expressed my opinion and I believed that people should have their say, and similarly there will be a number of protections that I can support, some that I can't, and I'll make a judgement on each of those, as I say, when they're put by way of amendment to the Smith bill.
But there will be people that want me to go further than what I'm prepared to go, but I'll look at each on their merit and I'll make a decision. As I say, I don't support discrimination in any form, against any person, and I thought from my own mind, even though I was against the change to the definition of marriage, I thought that if there was to be a change it needed to be by way of a popular vote. That has happened, and as I say, the most important thing in my mind at the moment is that there is a greater legitimacy to a very significant social change, and I think people recognise that.
DAVID SPEERS:
Let me turn to your portfolio briefly. The Manus Island centre, it's now been closed two weeks, but I think it's around 370 you said today…
PETER DUTTON:
…correct, yes…
DAVID SPEERS:
…men are still refusing to leave. You want them to go to the alternative accommodation that's been set up at Lorengau. Last night they were apparently calling for water. Things are obviously pretty grim there. Should at least some water be supplied to them?
PETER DUTTON:
David, people are squatting illegally on this maritime base and we want them to move peacefully. There are buses available; people can move to a new $10 million facility where they have accommodation, they've got kitchens, they have running water, all of the services that you could imagine, including health services, security, etc; but people are trying to make a political statement by staying at the Regional Processing Centre. It doesn't help anyone. And all of the services are available for them at the new $10 million facility that's been paid for by the Australian taxpayer and my argument is that they should take up that offer.
DAVID SPEERS:
And I accept your point on all of that, but I mean this isn't just a game of chicken here, who blinks first; give them some water.
PETER DUTTON:
David, I've been very clear about the fact that we have provided now six months' worth of notice – this is like the tenants who refuse to leave the house.
DAVID SPEERS:
So if they want to drink some water they've got to go on the bus to the other place?
PETER DUTTON:
They need to move out of the Regional Processing Centre because it's not safe. I mean they have trashed the place. There is no running water there, there's no sewerage, meals aren't being provided and yet all of that is available at the new centre – a short bus ride away – and many hundreds of people have already taken the decision to move into that centre or to the other centres – in many cases they've taken the package to return back to their country of origin if they've been found not to be refugees.
We are now down to a hard core that are being inspired, frankly, by the Greens and by some of the advocates here who are doing those people no favours at all. It actually makes me quite angry because they are trading on the suffering of these people in that environment because they think that they will get a political win here at home. I think the Greens should hang their heads in shame in relation to that.
The sooner we can get people out into a safer environment, the better we can negotiate with them to go to the United States or to go back to their country of origin, or as Mr Rudd provided for under the agreement that he signed with Mr O'Neill, they can stay in PNG.
DAVID SPEERS:
Under the US, only I think 25 from PNG have been taken to the US so far. I'm just wanting to clear up: who is responsible for these men now? Is it PNG or Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
PNG has responsibility because it's their sovereign land.
DAVID SPEERS:
Can PNG agree with New Zealand to resettle them there?
PETER DUTTON:
Well that's an issue between those two countries.
DAVID SPEERS:
So they can. PNG can make that decision; agreement with New Zealand?
PETER DUTTON:
Well any country, any sovereign state can enter into a bilateral arrangement. That's an issue for the respective states. They would have to think about other equities within the respective relationships.
DAVID SPEERS:
What does that mean?
PETER DUTTON:
Well they would have to think about their relationship with Australia or what impact that would have on…
DAVID SPEERS:
…what impact would it have?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think they would have to think that through and I think we'd have to think that through.
DAVID SPEERS:
Well you're the Minister. What impact would it have?
PETER DUTTON:
We've said for example that we have stopped vessels on their way, on the journey across the Torres Strait planning to track down the East Coast of Australia to New Zealand. We put in many hundreds of millions of dollars into a Defence effort to stop those vessels. We do that without, frankly, any financial assistance from New Zealand. If new boats arrive tomorrow, those people aren't going to Auckland, they're going to the processing centre on Nauru. So we need to be very careful about what any change would mean to those people smugglers who at the moment I can tell you are marketing in Indonesia and elsewhere …
DAVID SPEERS:
So the…
PETER DUTTON:
…let me finish this point; because if people get from Manus to Australia, which is their desire – and this is why the Greens are pushing so hard for it because they want to see Operation Sovereign Borders fail. Now we've not had a death at sea, we've not had a successful boat, we've turned back 31; the people smugglers are watching eagerly at the moment. If people can get from Manus to Australia, the trade reopens and I'm not going to allow that to happen which is why we've been very careful about each step that we've taken.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay. So your message to PNG: if they did a deal with New Zealand, that would have a detrimental impact on the relationship with Australia.
PETER DUTTON:
No I don't have any message to deliver to them. I'm just saying that any sovereign nation in any arrangement would need to think about other equities in the relationship. For us, we've been able to stop deaths at sea; I've closed 17 detention centres; I've got every child out of detention and 50,000 people came on 800 boats in short time; 1200 people drowned at sea when Kevin Rudd started to tweak with the settings.
DAVID SPEERS:
Yeah and we remember all of that. Would Australia stop…
PETER DUTTON:
…I'm not sure everyone does David. I think this is part of the problem.
DAVID SPEERS:
No, okay, perhaps not. Would Australia stop funding those who are still in PNG?
PETER DUTTON:
No we're not…it's not a threat. We've got a very good working relationship with PNG. We've provided a lot of support. We're pleased that they supported Kevin Rudd when Labor signed the agreement between Australia and PNG. We are working under that arrangement at the moment and I don't want to see boats restart.
DAVID SPEERS:
Alright. Jacinda Ardern the New Zealand Prime Minister is offering $3 million to help the refugees and asylum seekers in Nauru and Manus Island. Is that money needed?
PETER DUTTON:
It's a waste of money in my judgement. I mean give that money to another environment somewhere, where for Indonesia for example; we're the biggest donor into Indonesia for people who are displaced. I think it's an issue for New Zealand where they spend their money, but from my perspective, we want to get people off Manus. I want to get the Regional Processing Centre closed. I don't want hope being offered out to anybody that they're going to come to Australia or I don't want them rejecting the US position on the promise that maybe one day they'll go to New Zealand or somewhere else.
DAVID SPEERS:
Will they ever go to New Zealand? I mean she seems to think that you might still allow them to go there or might agree for them to go there.
PETER DUTTON:
David as I say, the difficulty is that people smugglers aren't that great at geography. I mean they market Australia in the same way they do New Zealand: it's got a good health system, it's got a great welfare system, schools are free, this is a new environment for you. Why wouldn't people want to make that trek? And the difficulty with New Zealand is that we have a 444 visa, which is essentially a visa on arrival for people from New Zealand. Now we don't do that with any…
DAVID SPEERS:
…you couldn't give them a special class?
PETER DUTTON:
We don't do that with any other country and if we were to do something in the future with New Zealand – and I don't rule that out, I never have – but at this point in time it is the wrong decision to send people to New Zealand because in the end you'll start the boats; people will fill up the places that we've created, the vacancies we've created in Nauru; you'll get the deaths at sea again and I'm just not going to preside over that arrangement.
DAVID SPEERS:
Let's turn to Queensland, the election. Do you think the LNP's going to win this?
PETER DUTTON:
I think there's a good chance that the LNP can win if they continue the momentum that they've built up. They've got a good story to tell. The Palaszczuk Government has had a shocking first couple of weeks.
Look, anybody who travels to New South Wales or to Victoria sees roads being built, tunnels being built, congestion being addressed, they're addressing all sorts of issues that are worrying families and businesses. In Queensland, the place, you know has really ground to a halt and I think people really get the sense that Anastasia Palaszczuk's made a real deal of not making decisions, not making decisions that are in the best interests of the state and that's frustrating.
DAVID SPEERS:
Well she's trying to get this Cross River Rail project going. The LNP's a little at sea on what to do with it.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I'll let Tim Nicholls speak for their policy decisions. From a federal perspective we see people locked in traffic on the M1 or on the Bruce Highway. You look at the projects that Tim has announced already; I think there's a lot by way of investment to address the concerns that families have around congestion, and people want to see Queensland pumping.
I mean the fact that Anastasia Palaszczuk would side with Jackie Trad to preserve her job and sacrifice thousands of Queenslanders' jobs over the Adani mine, I think is disgraceful and I think actually it speaks to a lot with what is wrong with the modern Labor Party; that is they're trying to please the inner-city Greens seats and they abandon people in outer metropolitan seats like mine.
DAVID SPEERS:
Just on Adani, you'd obviously be a supporter of the Adani mine going ahead. That's true, isn't it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I'm supportive of investment into our state and Queensland is a mining state.
DAVID SPEERS:
But this one in particular? Because it is a controversial project.
PETER DUTTON:
Yes. Yes, I'm very supportive of Adani.
DAVID SPEERS:
Are you a little frustrated the Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund is still looking at this project? It's been a while now, hasn't it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I think Matt Canavan and others can talk about what criteria people need to meet. I'm the Immigration Minister, so I don't know what …
DAVID SPEERS:
…no, fair enough…
PETER DUTTON:
… what the requirement is there, but they'll work through it. The investment has to be made. We've got an abundance of natural resource in this country and it's crazy that we're paying some of the highest electricity prices in the world here in Queensland.
DAVID SPEERS:
Now, the wildcard in this election's One Nation. The LNP's decided to put them above Labor in terms of preferences in 49 seats. Is that a good idea?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's an issue again for the organisation to have a look at, but look, I remember living through '98 when there was a big One Nation vote in my seat. I didn't come in until 2001, but the big achilles heel for One Nation is their candidate selection around the traps. They get people who, once elected, abandon the party very quickly and Pauline Hanson, even in Canberra, has found it very hard to hold those people together in the one tent. She's not even running in the Queensland election. She won't be there in the Queensland Parliament to try and herd these people together and…
DAVID SPEERS:
..you reckon they'll fall apart again?
PETER DUTTON:
… I think there is a great prospect that you could vote for the One Nation candidate today, and find out that they're an independent with no voice at all the other side of the election, which is why I think you're better off to support your local LNP candidate.
DAVID SPEERS:
Oh I thought you might say that. Nonetheless, they're polling really well as you've seen. Can you understand that? What would you say to someone who's thinking of voting One Nation?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I'd make that very point. I just think you might be voting because you're unhappy with the two major parties at the moment. You might be voting because you've lost your job. You might be voting because you're upset about a particular road. These fringe minor parties, as much as they may appeal to you on particular issues, they aren't going to deliver anything.
DAVID SPEERS:
But does it also say the major parties need to pull up their socks?
PETER DUTTON:
Oh of course and that's always the case. I think at a federal level we've got issues at the moment we need to address. We're working through those. It's hard to get clean air to get out the good message of what we are doing because of citizenship and other events – that's a reality and there's no sense in denying that – but I think Tim Nicholls is experienced; I've known him for almost 30 years. I think he will make a great premier of this state and I think he has the ability to hold his team together to deliver the jobs and to deliver the infrastructure and the investment to get Queensland going again so that we can compete with New South Wales and Victoria again.
DAVID SPEERS:
Immigration Minister Peter Dutton, good to talk to you this afternoon here at Broncos. Thank you.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks David. Thank you.
[ends]
