Subjects: Protests in Brisbane; AFP search warrants; Commissioner Andrew Colvin; Temporary Exclusion Orders.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
RAY HADLEY:
Of course every Thursday we try to speak to the Home Affairs Minister and Member for Dickson, Peter Dutton. He's in the studio this week – first time he's been in the studio for a while – Minister good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray. Good to be with you.
RAY HADLEY:
Haven't spoken since Origin three, so we'll get that out of the way first. I accept your apologies for the maligning of the great New South Wales team who grabbed defeat, or victory from the jaws of defeat in that last gasp try.
PETER DUTTON:
One in a decade event Ray. Should be noted I guess, and move on.
RAY HADLEY:
Two in a decade and maybe three in a decade next year anyway. It was a great series as it always is.
PETER DUTTON:
Of course.
RAY HADLEY:
And Kevin Walters and the Queenslanders went right down at the 79th minute in game three and for that they should be congratulated.
PETER DUTTON:
In a game where there's a big advantage to a home team, I thought Queensland did exceptionally well – you know fell away a bit at the end – but anyway it's always a great series and hopefully two games in Queensland next year, one in New South Wales and be back on track.
RAY HADLEY:
Now, let's get to some domestic issues for your constituents in Brisbane. Extinction Rebellion – before we get to federal issues – causing chaos again twice this week; Monday, Wednesday. Gluing themselves to busy roads, one of them remains in custody. The so-called ring leader Eric Herbert who remains in police custody, he's refused to sign a watch house bail. He's got more than two grand in fines, over four separate arrests. He got a warning on Monday and this time he stays in there.
The Palaszczuk-Trad Government seems completely unable to control these idiots. There's a big one coming on August six which could gridlock the city, that's not good enough.
PETER DUTTON:
It's not good enough Ray. Now, people can have a peaceful protest, the police will work with them to identify somewhere where they can have their protest, have their say; they can get their social media thing going, but in the end the reality is people are being inconvenienced, people are losing money that have businesses in the CBD and there's a potential for a serious accident to take place.
The Queensland traffic, you know Brisbane traffic, as people know, is already in gridlock at peak hour and for half the day now – so to have those idiots out there is unacceptable – and the State Government needs to get serious about it.
The problem is, people like Jackie Trad, you know, know half of these people and protesters, they're members of the Labor Party or the Greens or GetUp! and the Labor Party needs to stand up and show some backbone and that's what Annastacia Palaszczuk should do.
RAY HADLEY:
I'm going to talk to Steve Wardill, the author of the article in The Courier Mail today about Jackie Trad. She failed to publicly declare a property she purchased in her electorate that stands to reap big gains from government plans to build the Cross River Rail.
Now, if it was anyone else but Jackie Trad, I'm pretty sure that Palaszczuk would be referring that person to the authorities, but given that Trad is basically the person who runs the Queensland Government, it's going to be a bit hard for her to refer herself to the CCC.
PETER DUTTON:
But Annastacia Palaszczuk is the authority. I mean she is the Premier and when people think that Annastacia Palaszczuk is weak – yeah, sure she is – but in these circumstances she needs to stand up and it's unacceptable to have a Deputy Premier who fails to declare a property where she is going to benefit financially, potentially from – that's the allegation that's been made – and she should stand down.
It shouldn't even be for Annastacia Palaszczuk to have to sack her, but if that's what it comes to, that's what should happen. But for Jackie Trad not to do the right thing here and stand down herself in these circumstances, shows that something is rotten deep within the heart of the Palaszczuk Government.
RAY HADLEY:
I'll be interested to hear what Steve's got to say. She paid just on $696,000 for the property recently. She said she recently updated the Clerk of Parliament on several changes to her register, but conceded that this property had not been listed as required. Why not?
PETER DUTTON:
Well what property? I mean how do you miss out on listing a property, particularly in a circumstance where there's the potential for you to see a financial windfall out of a project that you're a potential decision maker on. I mean it just doesn't pass the pub test and for Jackie Trad not to stand down in these circumstances, as I say, I think it really speaks to a very bad culture within the Palaszczuk Government and if Jackie Trad won't stand down, Annastacia Palaszczuk needs to sack her.
RAY HADLEY:
Well she exchanged contracts on the 27th of March and it was settled and registered in her name on May 1. Anyway we'll deal with that.
Now, back to other issues. I've listened to your comments while I was away regarding the AFP and the raids on members of the media which has created a furore. There's going to be some sort of an investigation as to whether they look at those laws. You've said quite clearly, if people are getting highly classified information illegally to the media, they should be prosecuted and so should the media for receiving them.
That compromises me because I rely on a lot of information, not so much federally, but domestically on whistle-blowers. What have you got in mind, personally, and what has the Government got in mind, generally, in relation to the matter?
PETER DUTTON:
Ray there are plenty of laws in place to protect whistle-blowers. Nobody is doubting that the media are an important part of scrutiny, of public policy, of decision makers in this country and that will always continue – it's a very important part of our democracy. So there's already significant protections in place.
The investigation's underway by the AFP at the moment, so I don't want to comment in relation to that, but the point I made the other day is a statement of the obvious, that people in our country – whether you're the Prime Minister or the cleaner, you're the footy player, you're the nurse, whatever your position in Australian society – the law applies equally to you and that's the reality.
The Parliament passes laws, the AFP have responsibility to implement those laws, but the Prime Minister's been clear about the fact that we're very happy to work with the organisations to have a look at ways in which they can be improved etc, but that's all a debate for others to have.
From my perspective, the AFP were referred a matter by the Department of Defence, they're obliged under the legislation to investigate it, that investigation is underway and calls for me somehow to interfere with an investigation would be completely improper and I'll leave it to the Commissioner and to the AFP to conduct their investigation unhindered by me.
RAY HADLEY:
Well, given that you have just said what you've said; that you can't interfere, it would be fanciful for those accusing you of inaction to then accuse you of orchestrating the stuff that you won't delve into because you can't, because you're a Minister of the Crown, you're not the Commissioner.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I've been accused of both. So the left wing media criticise me because I didn't know of the raids taking place, or about to take place, or know of the investigation. It's a matter for the AFP and that's as it should be.
In our country we don't have politicians directing who can be investigated or arrested or raided etc. They're entirely matters for the police and that is how it will continue and the thought of interfering in a police investigation has never crossed my mind and it won't – that's the reality – not just from a moral stance, but that's the law in our country. And then, you know, you're accused of, on the other hand as you say, of having somehow been involved in this in the run up to it; it's just a nonsense.
So look, they've got other axes to grind, I think they're using this as an excuse to conduct another attack, but I think we just stare that down and move on.
RAY HADLEY:
On the back of that you're looking for a new AFP Commissioner. Thirty years of service for this Commissioner and he cited family reasons. I guess when you've been a police officer in one of the state authorities, or in the federal authority for a long time – 30 year standing – it must wear you down as Commissioner. There's a whole range of things he's had to investigate and look after. I guess he goes with everyone's best wishes.
But then you've got the job of finding a new Commissioner and there have been some names tossed up already, including someone I supported to be the New South Wales Police Commissioner, Nick Kaldas – I don't know that he'd been interested in the job anyway given that he's now in private enterprise.
The one thing I would say to you is: I hope we don't go looking overseas. I'd hate to see Peter Ryan revisited on the Australian Federal Police as we were in New South Wales a number of years ago.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, I'll make a couple of comments. First is that we aren't seeking a candidate from overseas, we've got some excellent talent…
RAY HADLEY:
…good…
PETER DUTTON:
…here domestically. So we're working through a short list of names at the moment.
Andrew Colvin had advised the Secretary of the Prime Minister and Cabinet before the election that regardless of the election outcome, he wouldn't seek an extension of his five-year term. He spoke to me shortly after the election to say that he didn't want to seek an extension of his term and I think he goes, as you say, with great respect from all of us.
I mean I've worked very closely with Andrew. It's a high pressure position. I don't think people should forget that we've been able to thwart now over a dozen attempted terrorist attacks in our country. He's dealt with all of that. He's dealt with the MH17, he's dealt with other tragedies. He's been a police officer, long serving over three decades and he has done, not only himself, but his family proud as well.
I did this the other day, but again Ray I'd give a shout out to his wife and to his family because it's an enormous sacrifice. He's on the phone constantly dealing with whatever issue pops up.
Andrew Colvin is a first class police officer. He's really led the AFP well and he'll go on to the next stage of his life. He's relatively young still, but I think it's also good for organisations that there is that change and turnover, that refreshing aspect to a new leader coming in, it shouldn't be underestimated. So we'll go through that process, but nobody from overseas and…
RAY HADLEY:
…good…
PETER DUTTON:
…and we wish Andrew all the best.
RAY HADLEY:
See, one of the things – and this is not just about you but other politicians, particularly Ministers of the Crown or Shadow Ministers – your life is not your own and I've seen it firsthand. But with a Police Commissioner – and I've spent time with Andrew Scipione and Mick Fuller more recently – and I've met Andrew a number of times at various functions. Always in uniform, always on duty…
PETER DUTTON:
…yes…
RAY HADLEY:
…and a security detail surrounding them. I guess there are security details at their residence, at their offices. I mean living under that sort of pressure and that sort of microscope, I don't know how you do it.
I mean I'm not talking just about you, but other politicians including the Prime Minister, Ministers, Anthony Albanese and others, Bill Shorten before him. But in service, 30 years – I know he hasn't always been under the microscope, but over the last five or 10 years he certainly has as a senior officer – it must be very difficult to conduct your life under that glare.
PETER DUTTON:
I think that's right and particularly for the AFP because they do a lot of postings overseas as well. So they're away from their family a lot. So an enormous amount relies on having support at home; which leads me into saying hello to my wife today Ray, if I may. It's our 16th wedding anniversary today.
RAY HADLEY:
Is it really?
PETER DUTTON:
Having lunch with her later on.
RAY HADLEY:
Can someone just find out for me off the internet what the traditional gift for 16 and what the new age gift for 16 years? I'll find out for you Kirilly because I'm sure somewhere in his pocket, he's got either a very small piece of jewellery or down in the boot of the car…
PETER DUTTON:
Don't build up expectations, she'll be listening to me...
RAY HADLEY:
No, no; well I'm not going to tell you, but it's silver. Go for platinum Kirilly, platinum. It's much more expensive than silver. No silver. If you come home with a cup, you're in trouble. Like you know one of the ones you buy at shopping centres, get it engraved. Kirilly, congratulations on the anniversary.
PETER DUTTON:
I just want to point out, I didn't get a sign on fee at the last election Ray, right?
RAY HADLEY:
Look, I'm a single father on a fixed income. Don't believe everything you read in the papers, okay?
Now look, you back on the 4th of July introduced six national security and immigration bills into Parliament, challenging the Leader of the Opposition Anthony Albanese on border protection and counter-terrorism.
This is a showdown and I'm very concerned about Kristina Keneally being the shadow spokesman on this particular issue because if she were ever to be the minister, all you'd have over there on the north western coast is: welcome, come as often as you like, as many as you like. So how do you craft this and get it through Parliament and make sure that the Labor Party on the same hymn sheet as you as a Government?
PETER DUTTON:
Ray, just to put it into perspective; we're dealing with a very serious situation here. We've got people that have been out fighting for ISIS in Syria and Iraq, they're Australian citizens, they have the ability to come back and what we're proposing is what's called a Temporary Exclusion Order regime. It's based on the UK legislation. It allows us to exclude somebody on a temporary basis for up to two years and that means that we can manage their return and we can put in place protections.
We don't want these people back in our country. There are a lot of them who have been killed in action and that's the reality if you go and fight for ISIL in a war zone, but we've tried to stop as many coming back as possible and the fact that the Labor Party wouldn't support this Bill to me is quite amazing.
So it's going to be introduced, as you say, and voted on next week in the Parliament and Anthony Albanese obviously was all over the place. The Labor Party is split and divided on…
RAY HADLEY:
…yes…
PETER DUTTON:
… tax cuts and dividend imputation, franking credits etc, and they're divided on this as well. The left of the Party now – I mean Anthony Albanese just to remember, holds up Jeremy Corbyn as his life's hero; he's on the extreme left of the Labor Party and instinctively they are opposed to these tough national security laws.
So we want to put in place the measures, the protections, all the rest of it, but this is crucial for us, as I said before, there are people who seek to do us harm every day, people who are planning and plotting terrorist attacks on our shores, offshore – that's the reality of the modern world – and if we can exclude these people in a number of cases from coming back, it just makes our community a safer place and that's why Mr Albanese needs to show the leadership that Bill Shorten didn't and support us next week in the Parliament.
RAY HADLEY:
In finality, I would say that on the 4th of July, The Australian newspaper suggested the Bill includes 16 of the 18 key recommendations by the powerful Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. That alone should be enough for everyone to get behind it.
PETER DUTTON:
Yes, it does and that should be the decision point for the Labor Party. We've looked at the committee's report, we've acted; but if you look at…I mean going back to your example of boats; they voted on 78 different occasions against our strong border protection policies. They just don't have the instinct on national security matters and I think Mr Albanese needs to have another look at this and support us next week.
RAY HADLEY:
Okay. I'll let you go. Happy anniversary to you and Kirilly and all the very best wishes for today, a very special day for you and her and I hope you have a wonderful afternoon. You're picking the kids up, they're back at school by now, aren't they?
PETER DUTTON:
They're back at school so no, I won't pick them up this afternoon. Might be a glass of wine at lunch.
RAY HADLEY:
Nan and pop may be filling in or something like that.
PETER DUTTON:
That's the deal.
RAY HADLEY:
Good on you. Thank you very much, Minister.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks mate.
[ends]