Subjects: ANAO Report into Regional Processing Centres – exposing Labor's dysfunction in government.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
TOM IGGULDEN:
Peter Dutton have you demanded answers about how the Immigration Department so comprehensively mishandled the contracts to do with the operations of offshore detention centres?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it is clear to all of us that Labor completely lost control of our borders. When Kevin Rudd came into power there were four people in detention, including no children. John Howard had put in place a plan that was then dismantled by Mr Rudd and Ms Gillard and 50,000 people arrived on 800 boats and what more could you expect; the Department was thrust into a very, very difficult situation and I've been very clear about this; Mr Shorten should apologise on behalf of the Labor Party – which is what Mr Burke, Mr Bowen and others have done – accepting responsibility for the 1,200 people that drowned at sea and they should accept responsibility for the billions of dollars that they've wasted.
TOM IGGULDEN:
But this report covers three phases since the detention centres were reopened, including two that were overseen by your Government and it says, if I can quote it: 'that this audit has identified serious and persistent deficiencies in the procurement activity of the Department.' So that does seem to indicate that your Government does bear some responsibility here doesn't it?
PETER DUTTON:
Tom, I'm not going to be critical of the Department. The Department was placed in a very difficult situation and we are still dealing, frankly, with the mess of Labor's making. They did apologise for the 1,200 people that drowned at sea. They have apologised for an $11 billion blowout and I think Australians should be angry with the Labor Party that the dysfunction that they presided over, the leadership rumblings, all of the difficulty of the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years, resulted in the sorts of things that we've seen in this ANAO Report.
The Government is absolutely determined to continue to close detention centres – we've closed 17 of the 17 that Labor opened – we got children out of detention and we are not going to allow boats to restart and vacancies to be refilled.
I think it is very clear to all Australians that there is a very big difference between the leadership of Malcolm Turnbull on this issue of settling refugees in record numbers, but the right way, and Shorten's divided government…would be government and they show that they have learnt nothing from their period in government. It is outrage and I think people should be angry about it.
TOM IGGULDEN:
But you're making political points here. This report is very squarely aimed at the administration of policy, it makes no political or moral points whatsoever, it is simply about very badly mishandled contracts, in some cases missing documents, poor record keeping, the Department seems to have been completely in the dark – even about such basic facts as how much it costs to house per head asylum seekers in these offshore detention centres – surely you can demand better?
PETER DUTTON:
But Tom look at the context, which is the point the Department made yesterday and the point that the ANAO has made, there were 50,000 people who came on 800 boats and the government of the day thrust the Department into a very difficult position. They had to make acquisition decisions in a very quick rapid period of time, they had thousands of people arriving every couple of weeks and….
TOM IGGULDEN:
….but sorry, you have made that point…wasn't the Department given a chance to change some of those arrangements by your Government through the open tender process and through other reviews of its practices and yet these problems persisted in the words of the National Audit Office?
PETER DUTTON:
And Tom there is no doubt that the legacy created by Labor will continue for some period of time. We are all living with that legacy now because we don't want anyone in detention, we don't want to have to deal with the expense of the 30,000 or so who are still here in Australia, we don't want people on Manus and Nauru, I don't want new arrivals and this is the reality of the situation.
The Department is not going to be criticised by me because they were put in a very, very difficult situation. They handled the situation as best they could, as professionally as possible and the Labor Party has a lot to answer for.
There has been no public comment by Mr Shorten or by the Shadow Labor Minister in relation to these matters that is anything substantial at all and I think it would be very interesting to see what the Labor Party has to say on your programme because they were front and centre when these decisions were made, when they made the policy decisions that resulted in putting the Department in a very difficult position.
TOM IGGULDEN:
Well sticking to your period of government and accepting that this report does cover both periods of when both major parties were in power, is it acceptable do you think to have some, what is it, $372 odd thousand dollars per head or more for the cost of keeping these people in these detention centres, when originally the cost was supposed to be around $200,000 per head?
PETER DUTTON:
Well again Tom lets deal with the facts and not the emotion. The fact is that when John Howard left office there four people in detention. There were no children in detention, not one.
Labor came in, they had 8,000 children in detention, they had thousands of people arriving each month in what was a completely disorderly process and of course the Department was asked to provide accommodation, to provide food and all of the security required in what was a very difficult circumstance. That's the reality of the situation and if you are asking about the costs associated with this, yes it is costly and that's why under Labor there was an $11 billion blowout.
We've been able to return money in the last couple of Budgets and we'll continue to do that for as long as the boats don't arrive and for as long as we are able to close detention centres.
If Labor is back in power the detention centres will reopen because the boats will recommence because Labor clearly under Bill Shorten is still divided when it comes to this area of public policy.
This Government is not going to allow the people smugglers to get back into business because if they do, and we get another 50,000 people arrive, then the numbers that you are quoting now will pale into insignificance – and that was the Labor experience.
TOM IGGULDEN:
Well talking of boat arrivals and the number of boat arrivals, when your Government's operation, Operation Sovereign Borders did to use your phrase 'stop the boats' the Department nonetheless locked in the costs of running the centres based on continuing high numbers of arrivals, continuing to payout despite the fact that people did stop arriving and being transferred to the camps. That surely qualifies as basic incompetence doesn't it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Tom again, if we can deal with the facts and not the emotion of what you read on Twitter….
TOM IGGULDEN:
…that's nothing I read on Twitter, I read that from the report; it says very clearly that it locked in costs based on high numbers of arrivals into the camps – that's not emotional that is a straight figure, a straight fact.
PETER DUTTON:
Again Tom, again, I know the ABC has a position against the Government when it comes to Operation Sovereign Borders, but leaving that aside, I get intelligence reports, the Department gets intelligence reports about likely arrivals, the reasons, but we don't always have the proper notice as you would expect because there are intelligence gaps or ventures get away without us knowing about them and we need to deal with that reality.
The Department needs to deal with this arrival or with a boat load of people at a moment's notice and they need to provide the ability to house those people, they need to provide the ability – in some cases, particularly under Labor – to house them for a long period of time and so they do need that latent capacity, they make professional judgements – but this is not an ideal world that we live in because we don't know the number of arrivals, whether boats will start or stop.
We do get some intelligence, as I say, and they make prudent decisions based on their experience and their experience under Labor was that boats started, boats came in great numbers, people drowned at sea and it cost the tax payer's billions of dollars.
Now the ABC will have to accept that at some point because that is experience of the Labor government and being apologists for that period of government is just completely unacceptable.
TOM IGGULDEN:
Surely this isn't an argument about the merits of offshore processing, it is merely an argument about the cost of offshore processing and whether that cost has come in too high because as the Audit Office says, the Department failed in basic government guidelines in how you draw up contracts and how you tender for contracts?
PETER DUTTON:
Tom I don't want anybody in Regional Processing Centres, I don't want anyone in detention centres in Australia, but we have to have Regional Processing Centres because we know that they work – that's why Mr Rudd entered into arrangements with PNG and why Ms Gillard entered into arrangements with Nauru – that's the reality of the history and that's what we need to deal with. We need to deal with the reality.
As we are seeing in Europe, as we know from the intelligence reports out of Indonesia and elsewhere that people would hop onto boats tomorrow.
It is an expensive operation to provide Regional Processing Centres because of the isolation, because of the medical services needed and because of the standard to which we provide services. We've provided $26 million to the hospital on Nauru, $11 million to the medical centre, we provide educational resources sourced from Australia to an Australian standard, we provide significant resources – your point is dead right – we do provide a lot more than what some of the propaganda would suggest from some of the activists in this area.
TOM IGGULDEN:
And at a higher cost than potentially the taxpayer needs to pay for them.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I would love to say that we don't have this expense, but we have the reality ongoing of the prospect of boats arriving. We have policies in place that have stopped drownings at sea – the not only financial cost here but a human cost as well – and Labor has apologised because their policy changes resulted in 1,200 people drowning at sea.
No one has drowned under Operation Sovereign Borders and we have not had a successful boat arrive in two years and frankly I think that should be celebrated by the national broadcaster, not bought into question.
[ends]
