Subjects: Manus Island.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
WALEED ALY:
We thank now the Immigration Minister Peter Dutton for joining us tonight.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure, thank you.
WALEED ALY:
So this all it seems boils down to West Lorengau. There are three facilities. Two of them are broadly ready. There is one that it seems isn't. You've been saying it is. We've got video of it here that was provided I think Saturday. It shows it as a construction site. The UN's saying that. Tim Costello has just been there and is saying that. Why isn't it ready?
PETER DUTTON:
Let's just take a step back. There were 600 people that were in the Regional Processing Centre Waleed, so those people have come out. There were some 140 or so non-refugees – so people that have been found not to be refugees – the rest were refugees. So we've got three centres. We've got big numbers and obviously we need to accommodate those.
The East Lorengau Centre I think has got 305 people in it at the moment – there's capacity for 400; at a stretch 440. We've got 102 people that are getting medical assistance in Port Moresby at the moment. What the construction is about is not about the 600, it's about trying to grow the capacity for those people when they come back from Port Moresby – and also we've got about 52 people in Australia at the moment that are getting medical assistance – and the plan is that they will go back once all of that medical assistance has been given.
So nobody denies that there's construction work going on, but it's to actually increase by a couple hundred beds so that we can bring people eventually from Port Moresby and potentially from Australia as well.
So for the 600 we've got existing accommodation. We've spent probably close to $10 million on the East Lorengau Centre. It's been up and running for the last two or three years. There's capacity there for the existing numbers, but we are growing the number.
WALEED ALY:
That's the point there isn't…but none of those numbers you cite change the maths, right? You've got East Lorengau working, fine. It's not enough for the number that are there at the moment and so that's why you need West Lorengau. It's not done.
PETER DUTTON:
Let's just go through it; so at West Lorengau at the moment there's 142. We've got capacity growing to 240 at that site. At Hillside Haus we've got 104 people. They can accommodate 170 people and there's construction there as well to go to 198.
So for all of the people that have come out – and we've got some people that have decided not to go into any of the centres; we've got some people, refugees who have entered into relationships with people on Manus Island, they're married, they've got kids and they've decided not to take up the accommodation option at all, so they are living within the community – there are a number of people that have taken that option as well.
STEVE PRICE:
So wouldn't it have been better to leave Manus operate and not turn off the water and the power until everything else was finished, so that you could then have a seamless transition?
PETER DUTTON:
But Steve all of the capacity was there before people had to move from the Regional Processing Centre. We'd given six months' notice. We'd spent $10 million on the new facility at East Lorengau; the other two facilities at Hillside Haus and West Lorengau as well, but we have got construction works so that we have greater capacity, needed capacity for people, the 102 that are getting medical assistance at the moment, – they're not due to come back for a while – and the construction work will be done by the time they get back.
STEVE PRICE:
Tim Costello says you're not telling us the truth.
PETER DUTTON:
But again, part of the problem here is that there's a lot of tweets and a lot of information, it's an emotional area. I can understand a lot of people want all of these refugees, non-refugees to come to Australia. I understand that Steve. Now, the job I've got is to make sure we don't get new boats start. The people smugglers are saying at the moment if you can get to PNG for a couple years or to Nauru then you'll come to Australia. I don't want that. I don't want drownings at sea.
WALEED ALY:
None of that is relevant to this current controversy. This isn't about those people coming to Australia. This is about the fact that you had a Supreme Court ruling in PNG that said this whole thing was illegal, gave you a closure date. You therefore had to have facilities ready by that closure date and you don't. Now there are these people who are starving.
PETER DUTTON:
Waleed, I've just read out the facts to you mate. I understand the emotion that's involved…
WALEED ALY:
…I'm not being emotional about it…
PETER DUTTON:
…I've given you the facts…
CARRIE BICKMORE:
…but what about Tim Costello who has actually been there; because you haven't been there. He's been there and he's saying that you're not telling the Australian public the truth. So is he lying or are you lying?
PETER DUTTON:
Again, look at what I've just said. There is construction work going on, but it doesn't relate to accommodation for the 600 people that have come out of the Regional Processing Centre.
Nobody denies that there's construction taking place, but the construction works that are taking place at the moment increase the capacity so that we can accommodate the extra 154 or so people who are in Port Moresby, or are in Australia, or for some who have said I don't want to live there, I'm happy with the arrangements on Manus, I want to live in the community; I've got kids to a local PNG wife and they're in a relationship with somebody there. So we're creating extra capacity. That's what the construction work is about.
For the people who have come out of the Regional Processing Centre – to go to your point Waleed – I mean we have done the construction work, we have provided the facilities that are there and there's a lot of misinformation that's around. We spent about $30 million a year on medical services as well. There's bus transport that goes around. These are open centres where people come and go from the centre, as opposed to a jail I guess, a view that people would conjure up in their own minds. So if you just take a step back from the emotion that's on Twitter; yes I understand people…
STEVE PRICE:
…you can understand the public, because the public hear two completely different stories; one from you and one from the refugee activists.
WALEED ALY:
Well it's not just…this is an important point; it's not just activists, Tim Costello is not an activist, he leads a humanitarian organisation, he ran a humanitarian mission, he's not active on Twitter, re-tweeting refugees that are…that's not his bag. He just goes over there and says this is what I saw, and it's backed up by the UN and what he saw, and what he says he saw is that there's just insufficient capacity.
PETER DUTTON:
Waleed, the UN wants people on Manus to come to Australia, right? That's their stated position. Now, there are lots of…
WALEED ALY:
…so the UN is making up facts in order to…
PETER DUTTON:
…there are lots of good people that have a lot of emotion in this space. There's a letter out today from academics, from doctors, lots of people who want people to come from Manus to Australia. I have to make a decision – I didn't put people on Manus – I want to get them off, but I want to do it in a way that doesn't restart boats and the intelligence that's available to me from Indonesia, from Sri Lanka, from Vietnam, all of those areas where we have a footprint, we look at what people are saying; they are saying right now that if these people come from Manus to Australia, then the boats will restart.
WALEED ALY:
Can you explain one thing to me just on that point because we are running out of time. Why is it if they end up in America that won't be an incentive?
PETER DUTTON:
Because New Zealand is a very different situation to any other country. If you're living in New Zealand, it's essentially like an extension of Australia. So you can come on what's called a 444 visa, which is issued on arrival. So if you're a New Zealand citizen, you have an as of right travel from Auckland to Sydney.
WALEED ALY:
But you could change that with a legislative fix. The end of the story though that if they end up in America…
PETER DUTTON:
…we tried to do that and we couldn't get it through…
WALEED ALY:
…sure, but if they end up in America, that's a pretty sweet deal isn't it? I mean it's the same problem. Why wouldn't that start the boats?
PETER DUTTON:
But again; a) because if you get to America you're not coming to Australia…
WALEED ALY:
…so you think they only want to get to Australia and America's not good enough for them?
PETER DUTTON:
Waleed, I get the intelligence reports, I see the information, the interviews with people; they want to come to Australia. I understand that. There are 65 million in the world that want to come to Australia. Last year we had the biggest offshore intake of refugees since 1983 – so we are doing a lot on that side.
I want to get people out of Manus. I don't want false hope being provided to them. We've provided settlement packages to go back to their country of origin. The deal that Mr Rudd struck with Prime Minister O'Neill is that the refugees will settle in PNG. We've got third-country arrangements, including the US, and I'm hoping we'll get more people uplifted from Manus to the US as quickly as possible. I want it closed. I don't want new arrivals filling the vacancies and we're trying to do that in the most sensible way possible.
WALEED ALY:
Alright. We are unfortunately out of time. I'd love to keep going with this, but thank you very much for turning up. We appreciate it.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks mate. Cheers.
[ends]
