Subjects: Refugee Week 2017; strengthening citizenship requirements.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
SABRA LANE:
Peter Dutton, good morning and welcome to AM.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Sabra, thank you.
SABRA LANE:
It's World Refugee Day. Twelve thousand refugees from the Syrian crisis have come here from 2015, most of them Yazidis. Given the ongoing crisis there, is the Government looking to bring more refugees here?
PETER DUTTON:
We know in Syria alone there are about six and a half million people who are displaced and many of those people want to return back, help the rebuilding effort when peace is restored and go back to their land of choice.
There are a number of people, as you point out though, that we've been able to help as part of a global effort. I think Australians should be very proud of the numbers that we are bringing in – not just the 12,000 people through this particular programme which was announced two years ago – but more broadly in terms of the numbers of refugees which will grow to over 18,000 over the next year or so.
And there is an opportunity for Australia to provide support which we've historically done, probably about 850-860,000 people now since the Second World War we've brought through the refugee and humanitarian programmes and on a global basis that makes us probably second only to Canada on a per capita basis and we should be very proud of that.
SABRA LANE:
To the new citizenship laws – what's their purpose?
PETER DUTTON:
Their purpose is on a few fronts. Firstly, in the current context around national security, it is important for us to make sure that we are getting that decision right. Many Australians rightly ask why we will be allowing some of the foreign fighters off in Syria at the moment to return home and the answer in many of those cases is because those people are Australian citizens. Now if they're born here of course that's a different scenario, but if citizenship has been conferred on them then I think people would rightly ask why have those people become Australian citizens and did the system let us down.
And for the vast majority, 99% of people who take Australian citizenship, they are good, decent, law-abiding Australians. They've made Australia great as a country today and we want to make sure that we address that front.
The second aspect of course is to make sure that through the additional requirements around English language, the additional requirements around residency that we can make sure, firstly, that people are abiding by Australian laws and secondly that they're abiding by Australian values.
And if the English language requirements are maintained then we can allow people to move into better employment, better prospects around education. We exclude people over the age of 60 and under the age of 16, people with disabilities etc. So there is a balance in there, but we do know that if people can improve their English language then they will integrate better into Australian society.
SABRA LANE:
Just on that point on the English language – Labor believes that achieving band six on the International English Language Testing System for citizenship, according to the new rules, that's university level standard they believe. How many people who currently sit for citizenship would not pass that test?
PETER DUTTON:
At the moment the test is basic so we move up one rank from five to six on a scale of one to nine so it is not university standard. And again this is a red herring and I think really it is incumbent upon Mr Shorten to show the leadership required in caucus this morning. When we first made these announcements a month ago, Mr Shorten instinctively came out and said that they would support it. Since then it has unravelled….
SABRA LANE:
…sorry Minister, getting back to the point though – how many people who currently receive citizenship would not pass?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, for some people achieving basic at the moment is a difficulty and there is no question about that and we think that is a great deficiency in the system. But by expanding from one year out to four years – the period that people need to be permanent residents before they become Australian citizens – we believe that they can improve their English language skills. There is a lot of assistance online and through communities now. It will help in families for instance where there has been domestic violence for people to have the greater ability to reach out for assistance to understand the support that is available through services.
There are many reasons, not just education and employment, why we would want to make a change in this area and we'll provide support to people. People will have the ability through communities to increase their English language competency over that period….
SABRA LANE:
…sorry for interrupting, but I'm just trying to find out how many people under the new rules regarding English proficiency and by extending the waiting period that a resident can become a citizen from one year to four – just how many people do you think will be capture by that that will be prevented from becoming Australian citizens?
PETER DUTTON:
If people take the opportunities that are available to them, then over the course of the four years they know that at the end this is the language test and this is the requirement to pass then people will improve their skills…
SABRA LANE:
…but what's the problem we're trying to fix? How many people aren't meeting that standard now?
PETER DUTTON:
We don't know in terms of how many people would achieve level six because we don't test for that now, as you'd expect. But as…
SABRA LANE:
…but by introducing it now you're saying that there is a problem, but the Government can't seem to quantify?
PETER DUTTON:
Well every study demonstrates, Sabra, that people who have greater English capacity – not just spoken word, but written word, reading, writing, for example – there is the ability for them to get better jobs over a longer period of time, to do better at school, to make sure that they integrate into society – that's all well documented. So compared to some other countries Australia at the moment offering the basic standard is well and truly behind the pack.
SABRA LANE:
Which intelligence and security agency has recommended that these changes be made?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we don't go into advice that we receive from our intelligence or security agencies in this space…
SABRA LANE:
…did you receive some?
PETER DUTTON:
….but I can tell you that nothing that the Government does in this space is contrary to advice that we receive.
SABRA LANE:
Implicit in what these changes are actually saying is that there is a large cohort of people in Australia right now who shouldn't be here.
PETER DUTTON:
I don't think that's the case. I think there are mistakes that have been made.
I think at the moment we have reduced the arrangement down to a bureaucratic exercise and we are saying that we want more out of the citizenship test. We want to be able to test whether or not people have been adhering adequately to Australian laws and values and we've been very clear about that. That is an important aspect of the change that we've made.
And that's why I think it is important for bipartisan support here and that's why Mr Shorten needs to show the leadership that I thought he demonstrated on the day that we made this announcement when he said that he would support these changes, at least in principle.
But it has certainly unravelled for him and the Left is out there trying to run this counter argument and I think that needs to be reined in.
SABRA LANE:
Actually I would like to talk about what the Government is doing if you wouldn't mind.
PETER DUTTON:
Sure.
SABRA LANE:
You also gain more discretionary powers to overrule the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. At what point do you say enough? You've got a lot of powers and dare I suggest that future Ministers may be tempted to abuse their power.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Sabra, to make the point, the obvious point – most of these decisions around citizenship, around visas for example are not dealt with by me as the Minister or the Assistant Minister – they are dealt with by delegates in the Department. So specialists with the skills that have the ability to judge the authenticity of documents, to test the voracity of claims being made by people as they are seeking – making an application for a visa or seeking citizenship.
The changes that we are proposing here bring us into line with the changes that already exist around visas and that's an important point. Why would we have a more strenuous process in terms of visa applications than we would for people making applications for citizenship?
SABRA LANE:
Immigration Minister Peter Dutton, thank you very much for joining AM this morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Pleasure, thanks Sabra.
[ends]
