Subjects: Return of children from Syria; asylum seekers and migrants in Europe; Operation Sovereign Borders; ABF podcasts; ABC; Day for Daniel; Queensland laws.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
RAY HADLEY:
Minister good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
First up, ISIS loses control of Iraq and Syria, are we bracing ourselves for the return of traumatised indoctrinated children as Australian terrorists?
PETER DUTTON:
We are and it is going to be a big threat, but firstly I think we should recognise the efforts of the Australian Defence Force personnel who have been over in Syria and Iraq. Obviously a decision is made by Government to send them there, but they've done pretty amazing work. They have worked well with the Americans and dozens of other countries that are in the fight against Daesh and killing people in the theatre of war over there is frankly the best option before any of them can come back to countries like ours.
But if they do return and if they're Australian citizens they have a right to return then we need to be able to work with, particularly the policing and intelligence agencies to monitor them, to look out as to what their activities might be and ultimately to try and reduce the risk to the rest of the public.
RAY HADLEY:
Well that's adults. What about the kids that have been subjected to mayhem, murder, beheadings and the like as they return here still as children?
PETER DUTTON:
I mean we have discussed this over a period of time. I mean parents who are crazed enough to go there to fight in their own name is bad enough, but to take children into that theatre and expose them to all of that barbaric behaviour, those kids will come back and their lives having been destroyed, do pose in some cases a threat to the public.
So there's a lot of work that is going to have to be done by the state governments, by federal governments, by everybody to make sure that we reduce this risk – and it is as you say – and kids as young as 12-14 years of age who may pose a threat when they get back here.
So it's a big issue and I think Michael Keenan has done a great job with the Australian Federal Police in trying to put a programme together, but it is not an easy task.
RAY HADLEY:
It looks like the French Government has blinked in relation to the so called Jungle Camp in Calais. They've rejected applications from Syrians and Iraqis for a number of months. All of a sudden now the camp has been disbanded and these people are being given refugee status which means to people that were thinking about doing it you beauty if we wait long enough the French will cave to us.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray this is what happened when Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd were in charge here. I mean the people smugglers had them worked out and I think this is a problem still for Bill Shorten because basically his Party is split down the centre as to whether they want to let people stay here permanently if they've come off boats or whether they have a tough line. And I think we've demonstrated that you need a tough line particularly where people smugglers are out there selling a message to desperate people.
But at the same time you can be compassionate and allow people to come in the right way and this is an issue for countries all around the world. And as people are seeing in Europe at the moment, this issue of boats and the possibility of boats arriving and people smugglers taking money off men, women and children and put them onto boats, it hasn't gone away.
I mean this problem will be with us for a long period of time and the UN estimates there are 65 million people around the world who are displaced – many coming out of Africa and parts of the Middle East obviously.
So we need to have control of our borders. It is inconceivable in the modern age that you cannot have people arriving unannounced without papers and the French authorities have got a big issue to confront. It has built up over a number of years and my view is that this latest decision won't help them at all.
RAY HADLEY:
Now I know you don't comment when it happens, but after it has happened we can get a comment. Have we had any recent cases where boats have attempted to reach the Australian waters and either been turned back or taken into custody?
PETER DUTTON:
We have had a couple Ray where we have been able to work with the authorities to stop the ventures before they've got on water. So we do work with foreign intelligence services and with the Australian Federal Police who are based in Indonesia for example and we work with those people to work out when a venture has been put together.
There's a lot of activity online, social media, people smugglers are texting and messaging out to want to be customers so there is some work that we have done recently which we haven't spoken about in detail, but that work continues because all of the intelligence reports that I get indicate that these people are ready to move and we need to continue the effort that we've got.
I mean we've got more assets that we're prepared to put at sea, that is more boats. The Navy we work very closely with. We're going to do more work with them, similarly with the Australian RAAF and there's a lot of work that our border command people are doing on a daily basis led by General Bottrell.
So yeah look there is lots of activity still going on and this threat just hasn't gone away.
RAY HADLEY:
But you do stress that these people were stopped before they even got on to the water?
PETER DUTTON:
Yes and in some cases we can do that. In some cases we won't get the intelligence, we'll find them at sea. Obviously we have got the use of satellite technology and it's a very sophisticated operation Operation Sovereign Borders, but the threat is still there and I think it will be there for a long time to come.
RAY HADLEY:
I get quite a reaction the next morning via email from podcasts, people who can't listen to the programme that catch-up via Facebook and podcasts. Tell me about podcasts and Border Force?
PETER DUTTON:
Australian Border Force has taken a decision, and I think it is a good decision, to put out more information about what it is that we are doing. There are a lot of people with big interests in Customs and the work that we do, intercepts, the work that we do with detector dogs and the Australian Border Force is putting out podcasts, interviewing some of the senior staff, getting information and facts out there because sometimes, particularly through some of the left-wing media outlets, Border Force gets a pretty rough time. So I think it is good to put a few facts on the table and I think people will enjoy the content and I think that will continue.
RAY HADLEY:
We'll get to the ABC and Fairfax in a moment.
Now, police inquiries into a truck that jack-knifed on Sydney's M7 earlier this month, and I reported it at the time, has revealed two drivers with that company involved – and I've got some question marks about the company, I won't name them – are in breach of their work visa conditions. Do you have details on that or not?
PETER DUTTON:
My understanding is that the New South Wales Police has provided detail to Australian Border Force investigators and they'll investigate it now and as you know Ray, I mean as your listeners know, we cancel thousands of visas each year for people that breach their conditions, for people that overstay, people commit crimes and if people have breached their visa conditions then they can expect to be deported pretty swiftly. So there's work going on at the moment between New South Wales Police and ABF investigators and I think whilst it is too early comment on in at the moment, I suspect once the matter has been dealt with then we can talk about it in more detail.
RAY HADLEY:
But you see I have bipartisan support in the Senate from one of your side and one from the other side about this trucking problem and it is a really big problem with the trucks. We've got blokes – and I don't wish to categorise any particular nation – but many of them are Indian drivers, they can't reverse a single axle, let alone a B-double. This one jack-knifed and we've got a training programme and I think one of the companies here maybe involved in this truck where you know you can basically get it out of a Kellogg's cornflakes packet. You know, yeah, sit behind the wheel, beauty, here you're accredited, get behind that wheel of that B-Double, bring it from Brisbane to Canberra, Brisbane to Melbourne and we have a very big problem Minister and because I am getting bipartisan support, I'm getting a stack of information about it and it is not good.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray, as I say, we are keen to investigate and there is a taskforce that has been set up, Operation Cadena, within Australian Border Force that looks at exploitation of workers, it looks at people working outside of their conditions and if we find people who are doing the wrong thing then they do get their visas cancelled, they are taken into custody and they're deported.
So we're happy to act on information that we can rely upon and if people have information they can provide it either to the New South Wales Police or to Australian Border Force and we can investigate that because in the end we don't want accidents, we don't want people causing trouble and 457 workers shouldn't be employed…the idea is that they should only be employed in circumstances where an Australian worker can't fill the job. So if companies are breaching their conditions there are pretty heavy penalties that are imposed on companies and again there are investigations that are underway all the time.
RAY HADLEY:
Well I think you will find that Senator Sterle is getting help from John Williams, the Nationals Senator in relation to this and when I get information I'll give it to you.
Now, just finally, have you had any contact from ABC bosses about the disgracefully one-sided Four Corners story on Nauru? I notice Mitch Fifield was spluttering and coughing like a second hand lawn mower after you had come on the programme last week. Has anything progressed from that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we had contact from Media Watch, so this is the ABC investigating the ABC….
RAY HADLEY:
…good luck! I think in relation to Media Watch, if you took my view; point one, I don't watch it; point two, if someone says to me you were on it last night, I say I don't care and point three; they send you a series of questions – and I've learned over the years, which I answer faithfully or used to – and then the various host – and there's been as many hosts as I've had up against me at various AM stations over the past 16 years – they pay no regard to your answer and say what they want to say anyway. So to use an old punting expression – I punt without them. I don't worry about them. I don't watch it and if my name is mentioned I don't care. If people email me, I reply I don't care that I'm mentioned.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I'm in the same category as you Ray. Look we didn't respond to it other than to say we'll take it up with the boss at ABC as opposed to the kangaroo court.
The questions that they send through – I mean one of the questions was look this Four Corners programme ran, you said that you'd be interviewed, but you would only be interviewed live because you had concerns that if you did a pre-record they would just you know cut and shred bits and pieces and just use what they wanted to, but you know we demand to know why you wouldn't be interviewed then on Lateline. It would be like you know being done over by A Current Affair and then Channel 9 saying well you can only have a right of reply on 60 Minutes. I mean it's a complete joke and it just showed, the flavour of their questions showed, how biased they are and the sad part is I don't even think they know what they're doing.
RAY HADLEY:
Well let me just take it a bit further okay because they hate it when I do this because at the moment there would be eight of them listening to this and they'd be all looking across the office because you see, I had a mate that used to work down there and he would send me a text and say you have got them in a muck lather today mate, they're running around like headless chooks.
Now the eight of them, they employ about 25 people for 15 minutes of TV once a week. I produce 15 hours of radio every week and have done so for 16 years here relying on three staff members and myself. Three staff and myself. Fifteen hours of radio and that doesn't take into account during the winter when I do a rugby league programme which adds another five, six or seven hours to my schedule plus a two hour country music show on a Saturday night. So there is a fair bit of media happening here.
They have got somewhere between 23 and 25 people to produce 15 minutes of TV every Monday night, but fear not Minister because guess what's going to happen very soon in the next couple of days….? They knock off for the Christmas break! They finish! So we're immune from their criticisms from about November until about March because they go on their holiday and for this my tax dollars, your tax dollars, are paying the freight for these low bludgers and I have had a gutful of them.
And right now they would be looking at each other and you know twirling their baskets saying my god did you hear him say that and I will get a letter from the Executive Producer tomorrow saying 'you're wrong, we only employ 16, we've got eight casuals and that we do the editing from other people within the ABC.' I don't give a continental. You are useless with a capital U. Not you Minister, them!
PETER DUTTON:
Ray, Ultimo is a bit away from your studio, but you can probably hear the choking sounds over there now.
RAY HADLEY:
The gagging.
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah the gagging on…
RAY HADLEY:
…well when you speak to the person that runs this joint, the lady that runs it, ask her how she can quantify and justify 15 minutes of lowbrow TV for about 24 weeks a year and the money paid to the presenter and all the other minions over there. They wouldn't get a job in an iron lung to use one my mother used to talk about. An iron lung wouldn't employ them.
PETER DUTTON:
Well you've got them fired up, there's no doubt about that, the lattes will be going everywhere over there at the moment I'd say.
RAY HADLEY:
Soy. Soy.
PETER DUTTON:
Soy lattes.
RAY HADLEY:
And by the way on a serious note, tomorrow is the 12th annual day for Daniel in memory of Daniel Morcombe – a very important day for Australia; more particularly an important day for Queenslanders to reflect on what happened to that poor boy.
PETER DUTTON:
Yeah now that is a better issue, a better note to finish on because the Morcombe family, as all Australians know, are unbelievable. I've met Bruce and Denise on a few occasions and you know they drive around to schools, they deliver a message and they should live well with the knowledge that their stopping other kids from meeting the fate that Daniel met and I think they are just wonderful Australians. We should spare a thought tomorrow for Daniel, but also for the work that they're doing because they fundraise, they contribute back and they have dedicated their lives to saving other kids and I think we should be very proud of that.
RAY HADLEY:
When we had the dreadful murder of this poor French girl and the bloke sentenced yesterday, do you think you could agitate with someone up there, because it infuriates me when they say 'oh we have given him life for murder' – and this is the only place it happens in Australia – I mean recently in New South Wales a bloke got life and he will be there for the rest of his life for murder, Stamford, for killing that beautiful young woman – but the thing about it is, this bloke yesterday gets life as 20 years and he will be out in 18 and the same with the killer of Daniel Morcombe and Gerard Baden-Clay.
I mean can someone in Queensland explain to Annastacia Palaszczuk – not her fault she inherited this – but life isn't 18 years for taking the life of an innocent young person. Life is for the rest of your life and we need a change in the legislation in Queensland so that these bastards stay in jail for a lot longer. I am sick of picking up The Courier Mail and seeing oh they got life and then you get to the bottom of it and it says they will be out in 18 years.
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray this is something the Queensland Government can fix tomorrow. I mean there's no Upper House in Queensland and Annastacia Palaszczuk has a big majority. Really, on these sorts of issues, there would be bipartisan support and the law could be changed tomorrow. The Attorney-General…
RAY HADLEY:
…but doesn't it infuriate you as a Queenslander when you see this? I mean you know you have got these heinous crimes perpetrated on innocent people and you read about life and then life's 18 years. How does that work?
PETER DUTTON:
I mean it's unimaginable what these parents go through and it is a life sentence for them. I mean they will live with those lost years and missed opportunities. There will be anniversaries that come and go and they will be reminded and have that sentence for the rest of their lives and you would wish that upon no parent. You are right.
But the reality in Queensland is that Yvette D'Ath the Attorney-General here could introduce that legislation tomorrow.
I fought for years…we fought for years and years on the issue of double jeopardy up here and they introduced a version which was as weak as water. New South Wales, to Bob Carr's credit, introduced a law which modernised double jeopardy and in Queensland they dragged their feet. Linda Lavarch was the Attorney-General at the time – absolutely hopeless – and families live with the consequences of the civil liberties brigade being in charge and some of the…as we have discussed before, I mean some of the civil libertarians and do-gooders that Labor governments have appointed as magistrates, I mean they end up with weak sentences and these people get out, they go out and commit more crimes and no wonder people are disillusioned.
RAY HADLEY:
I've got to go. So that the ABC fact checkers don't get me – Media Watch's final programme for last year aired on November 23 and they returned on February 1. It's a fair break.
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's a fair break, but don't rush back to watch it.
RAY HADLEY:
Thank you. I don't. That's the Immigration Minister. Thanks for your time.
[ends]