Subjects: Nauru Files, regional processing
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
LEIGH SALES:
Yesterday The Guardian Australia published leaked files revealing the details of thousands of incident reports from the asylum seeker detention centre in Nauru. The files detail allegations of abuse against detainees as well as episodes of self-harm.
The Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has described the revelations as hype. He joins me now in the studio. Minister, thank you for joining us.
PETER DUTTON:
Nice to be here Leigh, thank you.
LEIGH SALES:
There are currently almost 1,300 asylum seekers held on Nauru and Manus and you've been promising for quite a while now to organise their swift resettlement. When will it happen?
PETER DUTTON:
Well just let me deal with the introduction that you just provided in terms of the description of hype. That's not a description I used in relation to all of these reports.
There are some that are legitimate and there are others that aren't and others that have been found not to be substantiated. I think it is also important to recognise that of the 2,000 reports, many could include for example a complaint about food or a complaint about kids not going to school, parent disciplining a child within the regional processing centre – that makes up the 2,000.
So to put it in to perspective, and I think there are some within that that have been made on a false basis and I think that we should be honest about it, we need to properly investigate those matters, particularly where substantial claims have been made but we also need to be realistic what makes up the 2,000.
LEIGH SALES:
I will come to that in a second, though, I just want to know first of all, what about overall, all of those people there, when will they be resettled?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I would like to get people off Nauru tomorrow but I have got to do it in such a way that we don't restart boats because we've been able to get all the children out of mainland detention, bearing in mind there were 8,000 children in detention when Labor was in government; 50,000 came on 800 boats.
LEIGH SALES:
You've been saying all this for quite a while now. You've been in power now for more than three years, when are they going to be resettled?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Leigh, we need to find countries that A; are willing to take people, and secondly, it needs to be on a consensual basis.
LEIGH SALES:
And how close are you to getting that?
PETER DUTTON:
Well in some cases people on Nauru are saying under no circumstance will we leave Nauru to go to anywhere other than Australia. They have paid people smugglers for an outcome that they believe should be delivered to them.
LEIGH SALES:
But how close are you getting other countries to agree?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we have had discussions with a number of other countries, but what we're not going to do is enter into an arrangement that sends a green light to people smugglers because we will end up with people drowning at sea again, and the vacancies that we create by taking people off Nauru and off Manus, will quickly be back-filled by new arrivals and that's not the situation we want.
LEIGH SALES:
Is this turning into a Guantanamo Bay style situation where these people are just going to be there indefinitely because their home countries can't or won't take them back and Australia can't find a third country to take them?
PETER DUTTON:
No and with respect, I think that is a ridiculous analogy. I think the situation is that people have paid people smugglers for a migration outcome. They want to come to Australia, they don't want to go to New Zealand, Canada, the United States, Malaysia, anywhere else.
PETER DUTTON:
But this is turning into indefinite detention.
PETER DUTTON:
No, it's turning into a situation where people are making a choice that they don't want to go back to their country of origin. In cases where we're offering thousands, literally thousands and thousands of dollars for people to return to their country of origin, to provide support in accommodation...
LEIGH SALES:
…but doesn't it tell you something, if you're offering them thousands and thousands of dollars to return and they won't, there's got to be a reason, doesn't there?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it tells me the reason is that they want to come to Australia. They've paid a people smuggler $10,000 to get to Australia and they want to come here.
We've been very clear that we are not going to allow men, women and children to drown at sea again. We're not going to lose control of our borders like Labor did when they were last in government and we've been very adamant that we want to treat people with respect and dignity. We will investigate matters – and I've been very clear from day one that I will not tolerate one instance of sexual abuse or any abuse – whether it's toward a child, female, or male, on Nauru, in Manus – there are no children or women on Manus – but we have an equal policy and that is that we want to treat people with dignity and respect but equally we are not going to allow people to come to Australia that have sought to come here by boat.
We will provide significant and record numbers of places to refugees but we're going to do it the right way.
LEIGH SALES:
Just to return to the detail of those allegations that we were talking about and the leak in The Guardian Australia. I accept your point so we don't need to go over it again but there's a range of allegations in there.
How concerned are you that more than half of the reports involve children, even though children only represent about 18 per cent of the people held in detention during the time covered by the reports?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, out of the 2,000 as I understand it, or those that have been analysed so far by some people, that they're about just over 20 of critical – so you're talking about where there has been an allegation of sexual assault, so it might be a person within the regional processing centre that's alleged to have assaulted a female or a male within the centre…
LEIGH SALES:
…just about what I just said that the over-representation of children in these documents, when the children represent about 18 per cent.
PETER DUTTON:
Well again, it comes back to my original point. So you are talking about cases where children might not want to go to school, where children are complaining about the conditions at you know the local park or the local beach. I mean, these form the basis of some of these complaints and the point that I would make is that one representation of a child or of a woman in any of these reports is one too many.
We will work with the Nauruan authorities and the Nauruan Police Force to provide support to those people. But I want to be very clear that in the end, Leigh, we are not going to allow people to come to our country that are on Nauru or in Manus at the moment.
LEIGH SALES:
Okay you've made that point.
PETER DUTTON:
It's a key fundamental point to make.
LEIGH SALES:
I don't want to waste time repeating points that we've already made.
PETER DUTTON:
Sure.
LEIGH SALES:
Not every complaint is as innocuous as that they're complaining about the state of a park or the state of a beach.
PETER DUTTON:
Of course.
LEIGH SALES:
If there was a facility in Australia that had this volume of alleged incidents, surely it would at the least be the subject of a serious independent investigation and possibly even closed while that investigation took place. Why is this any different?
PETER DUTTON:
Well there would be incident reports at detention centres here in Australia on a daily basis – as there would be at schools, as there would be at correctional facilities – they are investigated and there is an obligation of the contractors on Nauru to report every instance and as you can see by the number, they report a very broad range of incidents – they are investigated, they are referred to the police if that is appropriate.
LEIGH SALES:
But after that Four Corners story the other week revealing some incidents in the Northern Territory, the Prime Minister announced a Royal Commission within 12 hours. Why is this any different?
PETER DUTTON:
Well there are considerable differences. Firstly, Nauru is not part of Australia, so this is an issue for the Nauruan Government.
LEIGH SALES:
We pay $1.2 billion per year to run those facilities.
PETER DUTTON:
And this Labor legacy is going to last a long time. I mean we're not going to clean up this mess that Labor created overnight because they surrendered control of our borders, we've got control now back of our borders and it's inconceivable in the modern age that we can allow people to cross our borders, when we don't know the identity of them.
We are working with people to return them to their country of origin as quickly as possible. Part of the problem of course is that we have got people here in Australia who are saying to these people don't accept the packages, don't go back to your country of origin, and that makes it very difficult.
LEIGH SALES:
There are always more questions to ask than the time available. Peter Dutton I'm afraid we'll have to leave it there, thank you for joining us.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Leigh.
[ends]