Subjects: Bill Shorten's weakening of border protection policy.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
LEON BYNER:
Let's talk to Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton. Peter, good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Leon.
LEON BYNER:
Okay, Anthony Albanese today on 5AA not half an hour ago said: look, I don't know what you're talking about. There's no change, no difference. What do you say?
PETER DUTTON:
Well he obviously doesn't understand how bad, how dire this situation is. This is a terrible situation because the Labor Party, Mr Shorten, has introduced a law which will allow people to come from Manus and Nauru that have serious criminal difficulties. So people that have been alleged to have been involved in sexual relationships with minors on Manus, people that have been alleged to have committed murder in one case, in Iran, these are the people that now will be permitted to come under what Labor's passed through the Lower House.
LEON BYNER:
How many is this by the way?
PETER DUTTON:
We're just going through cases now, but there are at least about nine cases that I've cited already where there are significant concerns about individuals and under Labor's now – if it passes through the Senate – law, we will see people coming as of right effectively. It bypasses the Minister and it puts the power to make decisions effectively into the hands of activist doctors.
Now, one of the lies that's going round at the moment Leon, is that there is no medical support on Nauru for example. The reality is that there are 60 medical professionals paid for by the Australian taxpayer on Nauru at the moment. The population of people, boat people on Nauru is 427. Now 60 medical professionals for 400 people is a higher per capita rate than you will find in Adelaide or any other regional area, remote area, capital city in the country.
So we need to be very clear that already medical support is provided, if somebody can't get the level of care that they need on Nauru, they're bought to Australia and we've done that in many cases. This is really a complete unravelling of offshore protection, which has been one of the main pillars of Operation Sovereign Borders and I really fear that Mr Shorten's decision will result in boats restarting, kids going back into detention and it's unconscionable. But that's what he's put in place and it's clearly what Mr Albanese and others don't properly understand.
LEON BYNER:
Labor deny that there would be an effective short circuiting of ministerial approval of these transfers. They're saying no, that's not true, the Minister still has final approval.
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's in black and white Leon that the law's changed. At the moment the Minister does have final say on who comes to our country. Under Mr Shorten's law, it is absolutely in black and white that the Minister has an opportunity to review a decision made by the two medical activists.
LEON BYNER:
So the Minister couldn't knock it back?
PETER DUTTON:
You cannot knock it back. Cannot knock it back. Ultimately these people come. There's a process where within 72 hours, the Minister can essentially flag concerns, but beyond that, there's no power for the Minister in it and it's an absurdity. It allows people to effectively use Nauru as an opportunity to step across to Australia.
The people smugglers look at this and they rub their hands together. I cannot believe that Bill Shorten didn't learn the lessons of Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd. This is Labor repeating the mistakes of their past.
LEON BYNER:
I just want to go back to a couple of basic stats that people need to be aware of in hearing this. First of all, you end up on Nauru or Manus because you came to Australia by boat?
PETER DUTTON:
That's right.
LEON BYNER:
All right. And at the moment, how many are on either island?
PETER DUTTON:
So on PNG, on Manus Island at the moment, 584 people, including 128 people who are not refugees. So they've been found to be not owed protection.
On Nauru, we have 427 people, including 95 people who are non-refugees.
We've had 456 people that have gone to the United States in the deal that we arranged with the United States. There are 95 people that we know have now withdrawn from the offer to go to the United States, so they're holding out to come to Australia. So they've effectively – through the 'Shorten Bill' – unravelled the arrangement we have with the United States, which again is a travesty and that's the picture.
There's a lot of propaganda in this space Leon in terms of medical support and the rest. We have spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars providing medical support, people being evacuated, people claiming that they had stomach problems, came to Australia, it turned out the diagnosis was constipation.
People have used this as an opportunity to get to Australia and now, one of the main pillars of Operation Sovereign Borders, the reason that we've been able to stop boats, is being pulled from under us and this is…I mean Mr Shorten has made a very, very grave error here.
LEON BYNER:
Now, Derryn Hinch has sought advice, if you like, from both Home Affairs and ASIO. What is that advice you've had?
PETER DUTTON:
He's been provided with that briefing this morning. I met with Senator Hinch as well and I think he's a very reasonable person; so we're waiting to see what happens.
The Labor Party and the Greens in the Senate as we speak, are actually trying to suspend standing orders there so that they can quickly rush this through the Senate – I think before there is more scrutiny of what they've done.
Obviously, in the Lower House this was a Bill that was supported by Mr Shorten, but got seconded by the Greens and the Greens, as I've stated repeatedly, are completely opposed to offshore detention and so now is Mr Shorten and this is a very heavy price to pay because I've spoken to sailors who have pulled bodies out of the water; children that have drowned and they just don't want to go back to these days.
But the advice from ASIO, from the Chief of the Defence Force, from others has been very clear to me that is that this Bill is not acceptable; it does undermine the Minister's capacity to decide who comes here and we run a very real risk of returning back to the days of Rudd and Gillard where people smugglers now see the way open to come to Australia.
LEON BYNER:
If Derryn Hinch takes the advice that you've said he's been given, then this won't happen, will it?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, that's right, potentially, depending on what the other Independent Senators do, but the Labor Party and the Greens have formed an alliance on this issue in the Senate and they will vote as a block, so it will come down to what the Independents do and some of them have declared their positions and Senator Hinch has now said that he's having second thoughts and I suspect that's certainly the case since he's had the briefing from the Heads of the agencies this morning.
LEON BYNER:
Are you going to fight the election on this?
PETER DUTTON:
The important point for us now and the threat that we have now, is how we deal with this issue. So I had a briefing last night and one early this morning with the General in charge of Operation Sovereign Borders. There are issues that we're looking at if we do get more boats on the water, what we'll do – we've closed 19 detention centres – whether or not we need to reopen any of those.
So there's a lot of contingency planning that's going on at the moment and I think ultimately people will make the judgment about, you know, who is strong on border protection because it's key for the security of our country and people have seen the weakness in Mr Shorten's behaviour in the last 24 hours.
I honestly objectively looking at Leon, nobody could say that Bill Shorten is fit to be prime minister of this country and I think he's demonstrated it not just in the taxes that they're proposing to put on which would be a devastating blow to the economy, but now on the very important issue of border security and national security, this a very significant issue.
LEON BYNER:
What do you say to those people, who in the last 24 to 48 hours, have warned that the rhetoric that you're using at the moment, that this is going to unlock the people smuggling business again for more boats? There are many who are saying that saying that constantly is actually a self-fulfilling prophecy. What do you say to that?
PETER DUTTON:
No Leon. The people smugglers had the Labor Party worked out long before, you know, before I came into this portfolio or Scott Morrison did. I mean the Labor Party had 50,000 people who arrived on 800 boats. They were pulling 1000 people a week off boats to process them on Christmas Island. So people smugglers are very sophisticated and I see the intelligence reports in relation to it. They are saying that they are waiting for a change of government and they'll be back into business. They have said in the past that they've monitored very closely what I say, sure; what the Prime Minister says; what the Opposition might say and they message that. If they think there's a change in the policy, they use that as an opportunity to market to people smugglers and Bill Shorten has handed it to them on a silver platter.
LEON BYNER:
What happens next?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, we continue contingency planning; so our Border Force officials, our Generals and the Chief of the Defence Force and others are reviewing their posture; the surveillance assets that we have, all of that at the moment and we're doing all that we can to keep our borders secure.
But this has been finely balanced for a long time. It took a lot of work, tough decisions to get people out of detention; to get kids out of detention in a way that didn't restart boats. We have brought people in the right way and we should be proud of that so through our migration program, but allowing people smugglers to get back into control is unconscionable and Leon, it needs to be said; I mean people are drowning on the Mediterranean this very day. People are crossing the Channel from France to the United Kingdom. That's what's happening in this very moment.
So if people think that people smugglers have gone away or somehow people won't get on to the boats, they will. There are 14,000 people in Indonesia now who are prepared to hop on the boats and the fact that Mr Shorten has been able to do what he's done with the support of the Greens before an election – at least Kevin Rudd waited until after the election before he dismantled John Howard's policies – but this is a dangerous move by Mr Shorten. I think the Australian public get it and they understand what happened in the past with Labor and understand that Labor is repeating the mistakes of the past.
LEON BYNER:
Peter Dutton thank you for joining us this morning.
[ends]
