Subjects: New Zealand Terrorist Attack.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
KIERAN GILBERT:
Good morning, welcome to the programme. In the aftermath of the Christchurch attack, the National Security Committee of Cabinet will today meet to discuss a range of things including, Laura Jayes, how this perpetrator slipped under the radar and secondly the threat of white supremacism more generally.
LAURA JAYES:
The Home Affairs Minister, Peter Dutton, joins us now live from Brisbane. Minister, thank you for your time. Do you have a clearer picture now as to who this individual is?
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning, Laura and good morning, Kieran. Obviously our agencies have been working very closely with their New Zealand counterparts from the moment this atrocity was committed, so there is a significant amount of support that we've been able to provide, and that of course will continue. I think it's important to point out that from the advice that I have that this individual has only had- only spent 45 days in Australia in the last three years. In fact, he's travelled extensively overseas since, as I'm advised, 2010. So, they're working very closely to put a picture together what happened whilst he was overseas et cetera, and all of those investigations - as you would expect - are well and truly underway.
KIERAN GILBERT:
And one of the key questions, understandably, that the New Zealand Prime Minister wants answered - I'm sure you want answered as well - why wasn't he on a watch list?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it's a good question to ask, and we look at our situation all the time in our country as New Zealand will theirs, Kieran. But as I say, this individual has had 45 days in Australia over the course of the last three years, travelled extensively throughout the world - including in Europe - but- almost for the last decade. So again, we need to be realistic about what ASIO can and can't do, what the Australian Federal Police can and can't do. They work day and night to keep us safe. They've thwarted now 15 attempted terrorist attacks, including one from a right-wing extremist group. So the work that they do is informed by intelligence, both human source as well as electronic, and working very closely with our Five Eyes partners as well as partners in the region and frankly right across the world. They have a global reach and they rely on information that is provided as well as information that we disseminate as well. So the work that ASIO does, and the Australian Federal Police does, is absolutely cutting edge and it's kept Australians safe on many more than one occasion.
LAURA JAYES:
So he's hardly been home in the last three years, does that mean that you're now working with the FBI, and other Five Eyes intelligence agencies, in order to get a clearer picture on this guy, Minister? And more broadly, are you looking more closely now at the white supremacist threat in Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
The work with the agencies - not just within our Five Eyes partnership as you point out including with the United States - is already well established. It just kicks in 24/7. There's an exchange of information and intelligence, we are a well-respected intelligence and law enforcement agency nation, and it's a great credit to all of the leadership and the frontline officers within our Home Affairs agencies. So there's a lot of work that is underway already, and particularly in relation to this case, the focus of attention now is well and truly on what happened, to look at any retaliatory acts, to look at any copycat acts. All of the agencies have been very mindful of that from the moment that this massacre took place.
So in terms of, and there's been some criticism I've seen in the ABC and elsewhere this morning - which frankly I think is disgraceful - of our agencies or of the effort in this country. The fact is, that ASIO has from the very first briefing they provided to me spoken about the threat from these extreme groups, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, extreme right-wing groups, whatever term you want to apply to them. They've been squarely on their radar, and as I say of the 15 attacks that were attempted, one of those came from a right-wing extremist group. So already they are well and truly looking at this threat, they're dealing with the threat and to think that they've just discovered it or they're coming late to the party is complete rubbish.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Is there is there an underground right-wing supremacist neo-Nazi problem in Australia? How extensive is it?
PETER DUTTON:
Our problem is with extremists, Kieran, so wherever it manifests itself, wherever it is on the spectrum, we're concerned about that. Our agencies are blind to ideology, to religion, to race, creed, skin colour, whatever. Their concern is to identify threats, to identify extremist individuals or groups that might seek to do harm in our country or elsewhere. That's the work that they do day and night. Now, there are literally millions and millions of posts each day, pages of content that they need to trawl through as best they can. Facebook themselves have pointed out over the course of the last couple of days that there is a limitation in technology here as well. We need to be realistic about the threat that is posed in the form of these groups, but we also need to be realistic about the capacity for every post to be dissected or to be risk-rated for the agencies to look at information that's posted in real time. The fact is, we have significant threats in our country as other countries around the world do, both in the extreme right-wing, the neo-Nazi groups, as well as the radical Islamic groups. And the agencies, I think at the moment, frankly need to be praised for the work they do.
LAURA JAYES:
Kerryn Phelps this morning has accused the Government of dog whistling on the asylum seeker issue. She argues that you've demonised asylum seekers that have come here by boat. How do you answer that charge?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, it's just absurd. I mean, the Greens want an open border policy. They've been very clear about that. Bill Shorten has a form of open border policy, and it resulted in 1200 people drowning at sea. So in terms of the Greens trying to hold some sort of moral high ground here, the fact is that they were in government with Julia Gillard when hundreds of people drowned at sea. It's a tragedy. Now, they should be ashamed of their time, but I don't think we should give them the attention that they're seeking at the moment.
Frankly, some of these Greens are as bad as Fraser Anning on the far right, and I think we should dismiss their views and not give them the attention that they seek at the moment. Our efforts, and we've been working day and night, the Prime Minister and I have been in constant contact and phone hook-up's et cetera, with the agency heads since last week and certainly over the course of the weekend as well. That's where our focus is. I want to draw attention to the excellent work that ASIO, the Federal Police, AUSTRAC, the ADF, have done in helping their New Zealand counterparts. The Greens are fringe dwellers, as is Fraser Anning, so I think frankly we dismiss both their views.
KIERAN GILBERT:
In terms of the intelligence framework, Laura, and you mentioned the Five Eyes earlier, it is true and understandably, I guess, that the New Zealand component - the SIS - is the smallest of the intelligence agencies. Do you think that the events of recent days will see a rethink in that country in terms of resources and so on-spend in that regard?
PETER DUTTON:
Well again, all of that will be focused on, and no doubt the New Zealand government will look at all of that. From our perspective, as an outsider looking in, all I can say is that we have a first class relationship with the New Zealand agencies and that continues to this very day. We rely heavily on each other. New Zealand is a very crucial part of our Five Eyes partnership; they are world class in their ability to gather intelligence. The disruption efforts that they're involved in can only be praised and that's been my experience and the experience of our agencies as well. I think the focus at the moment though, Kieran, is on the grieving families, on the process of burials and repatriating bodies back to their families and there are religious reasons for that as you can understand, obviously Coronial processes that need to be gone through. So those that are seeking to make political opportunity out of this tragedy at the moment I think should be condemned, and at the moment we're working to keep Australians safe, to keep New Zealanders safe. Our relationships with our Five Eyes partners, as I was reminded of last week when our agency head from the Transport Security Agency out of the US was visiting, there's work that we're doing on keeping people in our country safe around the clock and I think our agencies and our frontline offices should be praised for that.
LAURA JAYES:
Just quickly and finally because I know you've got to catch a flight, Minister, Can I ask you about Pauline Hanson? She's refused this morning and she said she will not be voting for the censure motion against Fraser Anning in the Senate. When we talk about fringe dwellers do you categorise her in that category? And Jacinda Ardern also flagged that that she wants to deport Brenton Tarrant after he has gone through the whole legal process here, is that possible?
PETER DUTTON:
Look, again, I think the focus at the moment is on the tragedy that's taken place in Christchurch, providing support from our perspective to the intelligence and law enforcement agencies in New Zealand, and frankly that's taking up all of our bandwidth at the moment in terms of making sure that we can get a complete picture, getting a better understanding of connections and travel arrangements. As I say, it's the reality that this man has only spent 45 days here over the course of the last three years and has travelled extensively over the last almost decade.
So that's where our focus is at the moment and we want to provide whatever support we can to people within the Islamic community in Australia who are impacted through friends or families that have been killed or injured. There's an enormous amount of work being undertaken by Marise Payne and the Department of Foreign Affairs. We have a global reach, we're well respected internationally and there's a lot of work that that's underway now with our partners, gathering all of that intelligence and law enforcement picture, and really that's our focus at the moment.
LAURA JAYES:
Minister Peter Dutton, live there from Brisbane, I appreciate your time this morning.
[ends]