Subjects: NSW court case; Nauru; character cancellations.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
RAY HADLEY:
The Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton joins me most Thursdays. He's on the line. Minister good morning.
PETER DUTTON:
Good morning Ray.
RAY HADLEY:
I sent you that judgment this morning. You've heard what I've had to say. You've been waiting on the line. I've made the point and I make it again to you – the similarities between this case and Man Monis are quite frightening, quite frightening.
PETER DUTTON:
Well we've got a lot of issues with returning foreign fighters. We're worried about people with extremist views who are being indoctrinated online and people with histories like this Ray.
So it's probably a bit of a sobering reminder of the threats that ASIO and the AFP and New South Wales Police and others are dealing with on a daily basis and we need support from the courts. We need to use everything possible within our powers to keep Australians safe.
Look the only thing that I can say is that Christian Porter, who is our Federal Attorney-General, is an exceptional person. I think he's – as a former Crown prosecutor – somebody that has a very realistic approach to these matters. He's firm in his approach and if anybody can arrive at a common sense position on these sorts of matters, it's Christian Porter.
So there'll be decisions about appealing, but I can understand and share, believe me, the frustration of a lot of people when you hear these stories.
RAY HADLEY:
Well the Crown Solicitor's Office in New South Wales was the plaintiff. He was defended by legal aid – that's another cost to the community – and I'm not questioning the judgment of a Supreme Court judge here.
PETER DUTTON:
No.
RAY HADLEY:
I'm not questioning his judgment, but I'm just simply saying there's a risk and in the case of Man Monis there were magistrates, and at least one District Court judge, who were prepared to take a risk and the results were catastrophic. Absolutely catastrophic and I'd hate to think that a single Supreme Court judge has made a ruling here where the results would be equally catastrophic for the community.
PETER DUTTON:
But again Ray, I mean, if people have these views, go back to your country of origin…
RAY HADLEY:
….well hang on. Stop there. Stop there. That was raised with the Crown by his Honour and he said, his Honour said: look, the bloke that hates us, let's send him back and the Crown said: oh no, there are legal impediments.
Now, you're the Home Affairs Minister, if this bloke so dearly wants to go back to Lebanon or Syria, wherever he wants to go, if Mohamed Naaman wants to go back, why can't you say today: well Mohamed, off you trot son. You go over there. You want to go and live there, goodbye, but you're not coming back. Why can't you do that now?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it'd be the best money we ever spent. So let me find out his situation, why it hasn't happened, whether it's available to us, but I mean if these people want to go and live in caves in the Middle East and practice their ideology, good luck to them. We don't want them here.
People come here from around the world and the vast majority of people who come here as migrants don't want to cause us harm, don't want to see people blown up, but those who do, we have zero tolerance for them and they shouldn't be here.
RAY HADLEY:
Well here's a starting point for you. On page 23 of 24 Justice Fagan says: as recorded throughout – these are the reasons, the defendant has repeatedly stated his rejection of Australia and his preference is to arrive in Lebanon. In the course of the hearing, I raised with the plaintiff's counsel, which are the Crown Law Office, the possibility of this being facilitated. Counsel submitted there would be legal hurdles to be overcome. I strongly urge that both state and the defendant's legal advisers should thoroughly explore any available means by which the defendant might realise his wish. He says there's nothing to be served by keeping him here against his will, in a country he detests. His desire to leave Australia may be founded upon the Islamic ideal of Hijrah, being migration to join the Islamic community living under Sharia law. In the defendant's case, this would appear to suit all parties. That's a Supreme Court judge. In other words, he's pleading with you and with the state – send the bastard back. Let him go. Don's stop him. Whether he wants to fight over there or not don't – mate if you get rid of him, he can't do a Man Monis to us here.
PETER DUTTON:
Mate, I've kicked more criminals out over the course of the last couple of years…
RAY HADLEY:
….well try with this one because I think it's really important.
PETER DUTTON:
…happy to add him to the list.
RAY HADLEY:
I don't want to be dealing with an inquest down the track where innocent people lose their lives because we decided he didn't need to be supervised.
Anyway, I'll go on. We're told today all children will be taken off Nauru by the end of the year. Will they be accompanied by their parents?
PETER DUTTON:
Ray a couple of points here. One is that the Government's been working through both Manus and Nauru. We've closed the regional processing centre in Manus. Labor had women and children up there. We got the women and children off there. We've done it there and we're in the process of doing it in Nauru, but we're doing it in a way that's not going to restart boats and this is the difficulty.
I mean Bill Shorten came forward in a rush because he had people tearing apart their Caucus room. They were fighting about what to do on Nauru and the rest of it and he proposed a New Zealand solution. Now my judgment is that the way that Mr Shorten has proposed a New Zealand option would be a green light to people smugglers. It would be a pull factor and you'll see boats arrive with children on them. So I want to be very careful about how Mr Shorten is speaking, how the people smugglers are interpreting his words, because this is a finely-balanced situation that we've got.
We've been very clear about people not settling permanently…
RAY HADLEY:
….but are you really telling us, my listeners and me, that once these people arrive here with their children through the legal structure that we have in place in this really reasonable country, that any of these people will go anywhere else but Australia?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we've already got 400 – excuse me, 439 to the United States. We've got 1,250 places within that program and I've been very clear; I mean once people have received their medical assistance, then the expectation is that they will return back to their country of origin.
RAY HADLEY:
It might be the expectation Minister, but you know the lawyers are lining up. Julian Burnside and the lawyers are lining up a queue to the left to let them stay here.
The other question is: if all the children are being brought back to Australia as announced today, what happened to the ones – the parents I'm talking about – who were rejected by the US on security grounds, what happens if they have children? Do they come here as well?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Ray again, a couple of points. I mean one is we're not going to allow people into the Australian community that we know to be a risk to the Australian community…
RAY HADLEY:
….but what if they have children? Are you going to bring the children back here without the parents?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we can look at the individual cases and I've had cases before where I've made decisions that the father will stay in custody and the child and the mother will go out into the community. So we worked through each of those cases.
But the other point is that I can only operate within the law and as you say and we've spoken about it a dozen times – the issues with the AAT, the Federal Court, interpretation of some of these laws and the rest of it – I can only operate within the law. We've amended the law as best we can. There are changes that we've tried to get through the Parliament that Labor and the Greens won't support that would tighten up the situation, but we do want to clean up what's a significant mess and it costs a lot of money.
We don't want women and children drowning again at sea and frankly I'd like to hear a voice speaking for the children who drowned at sea on Labor's watch. It's the Labor Party policy, as it is ours, that if a boat arrives tonight, those people including children if they're on that boat, are going to Nauru and we're not going to deviate from that because we know that people smugglers are there – they haven't gone away – but we're not going to allow those people to get back into business and at the same time, as we've done with the closure of the regional processing centre on Manus and getting women and children off there, sending people to the United States; we've done it in a way that hasn't created a pull factor, but it is finely balanced and we need to be cognisant of the risks that we face…
RAY HADLEY:
…ok.
PETER DUTTON:
…that's the reality.
RAY HADLEY:
A quick one. I was perplexed by a story by Martin King at A Current Affair through the week. It's about a criminal named Christian Feetham, who's currently in Melbourne immigration accommodation centre awaiting deportation. Are you aware of this case?
PETER DUTTON:
…yes I am….
RAY HADLEY:
…have you made an adjudication on it? Ok. We're talking about someone with an extensive criminal history as portrayed as some sort of Latter Day Saint by Martin King on Channel Nine. He's been jailed for four years on two separate occasions. He came to the attention of police again recently over the last 18 months. One of the convictions was for assault on his own sister. When quizzed about driving without a licence, unregistered, uninsured vehicle, by my colleague in Melbourne Neil Mitchell he said and I quote: in rural towns, you do what you have to do. Have you made a decision on this bloke or when will you?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it's a decision for Minister Coleman, not for me Ray. So I think it's under consideration at the moment. But Assistant Minister Hawke, I think, made a decision to cancel and it's through an appeals process at the moment – so that's underway.
But again, if people have committed serious criminal offences then we've been very clear – the law, we're just proposing at the moment, in fact, to tighten it further – and that is if you come here as a non-citizen, you are expected to abide by the law. It's pretty basic and if you don't, you can expect to have your visa cancelled.
Now, there are certain circumstances where you look at cases, where there might be sick kids or an elderly parent or a partner with a terminal disease, I mean there are ways in which you can look at cases and maybe there's a different outcome where you don't cancel a visa or delay the departure. You can have a common sense approach to it…
RAY HADLEY:
…ok.
PETER DUTTON:
… but the general rule for these cases is if you're committing these offences, expect to be kicked out.
RAY HADLEY:
Ok. Thanks for your time. We'll talk next week.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Ray. See you.
[ends]