Subjects: Extinction Rebellion protests; climate change; Syria; returning foreign fighters.
EO&E...........................................................................................................................................
DEB KNIGHT:
Now, they promised major chaos and climate activists are certainly delivering; gluing themselves to roads, stopping traffic, and vowing to ramp up their action to a disruptive peak today in cities right across the country. Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton joins us now, along with Deputy Opposition Leader Richard Marles. Good morning to you both.
PETER DUTTON:
Morning Deb.
RICHARD MARLES:
Morning Deb.
DEB KNIGHT:
We live in a democracy, we fought wars to protect free speech. These people have got a right to protest, don't they, Peter?
PETER DUTTON:
Well they do, but this goes well beyond that. Nobody would say that people aren't entitled to express their view and to express it forcefully, but this is a disruptive element. It's similar to what you see with G20 gatherings. These people are radicals, they're outliers, and I think frankly they do their cause more harm than good. So I think it's right that the police will interact with them today. Hopefully a lot them are arrested or moved on because there's a huge disruption to the CBDs – which is what they want – that's what they aiming to do.
DEB KNIGHT:
That is the aim of protests.
PETER DUTTON:
Well of course it is, but when you cross that line, which these people do, I think they're, frankly, just stumping their nose at Australians who want to go to work, want to run their businesses, don't want it to be disrupted by these people.
DEB KNIGHT:
Now some of the most extreme elements of this group say that they are full-time protesters. Should we go so far as to cut their welfare payments? Should we make them pay for the police action?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, I think very strongly that we should be charging these people the cost of the police response. I think if you're conducting yourself in a peaceful way – which happens every day around the country, people from unions, from organisations will have a permit from the police, they will have an agreed route, they'll have messaging, they do it peacefully, and that's completely acceptable – but when you are acting outside of the law – which these people are doing – you're diverting valuable police resources. I think there should be a price to pay for that. It's happened at Victoria, where the State Government before has sought to levy that charge of the police response to the organisers.
DEB KNIGHT:
Yeah, there's a precedent for that.
PETER DUTTON:
Of course there is.
DEB KNIGHT:
Now the climate issue, of course, Richard, has seen your Shadow Agriculture Minister Joel Fitzgibbon break ranks. He says calling on Labor to adopt the Coalition's emissions reduction target. Industry groups have backed it. Do you support that idea?
RICHARD MARLES:
Well look, there is a whole discussion that we need to go through and we'll obviously do that over the next couple of years in the lead-up to the next election in terms of what our policies are. Certainly what I do see is that on the other side, we don't have a climate policy coming out of government and I understand the frustration that people feel out there.
DEB KNIGHT:
Yeah, but we're talking about the Labor Party. What about you?
RICHARD MARLES:
Well, we lost the election; wish we didn't, but we did.
DEB KNIGHT:
But you've got to promote alternative policies.
RICHARD MARLES:
Yeah, and we got three years before we go to the next election. So we're going to take our time to get those policies right. In the meantime we're going to have a discussion, and that's what you would imagine that we would do, but over the next three years, it's up to this mob here who got elected to actually work out what they're going to do.
DEB KNIGHT:
So do you back Joel Fitzgibbon or not?
RICHARD MARLES:
Well, there is a discussion going on at the moment…
DEB KNIGHT:
…but you personally?
RICHARD MARLES:
I hear what Joel said, and Joel's got a right to say it, but we're going to have a conversation within the Party about exactly how we go forward on this.
PETER DUTTON:
That's a polite description for civil war.
RICHARD MARLES:
No, it's not.
PETER DUTTON:
These are the opening shots in a civil war and of course, Anthony is overseas at the moment, so all these guys are running riot with different ideas. The kids are in control of the house and it's party time, right? So these guys don't know what they're doing.
RICHARD MARLES:
You wish Peter.
DEB KNIGHT:
But there's a lot of navel-gazing going on by Labor, and you yourself gave a speech last night where you talked very openly about the issues that Labor does have to confront. You said that Labor was offering handouts rather than hope. Are you concerned that Labor's just really lost that traditional base?
RICHARD MARLES:
May 18 was an incredibly difficult day for the Labor movement. This was, you know, losing that election for us, it feels like a catastrophe and obviously being on the wrong side of the Parliament, you absolutely get the sense of impotence – you don't change people's lives sitting on the side of the Parliament that we do.
Now, we're not going to move forward and win the next election unless we learn the lessons from what happened on May 18 and you don't do that without having a proper discussion, but let's be clear; we will have that discussion, but we're also going to make sure that we're holding these Muppets to account because they are a very ordinary government, and we're going to do everything we can to make sure that your viewers, that we are sincerely trying to win their vote and make Anthony Albanese the next prime minister at the next election.
DEB KNIGHT:
Now, the Kurds in Syria say that they've been betrayed and they have been left to the slaughter after the shock withdrawal of US troops effectively gave Turkey the green light to invade. Australia has now been called on to help stop this further bloodshed. Peter, what concrete action can Australia take? Will we impose sanctions?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Deb, obviously the Turks have got their own domestic necessities. They're worried about their border. So they've got their own motivations. It's the case though that the SDF – the Syrian Democratic Forces – have provided stability, they provided support, and the Kurds of course have been stabilising force for us and we've worked very closely.
DEB KNIGHT:
They've lost many lives joining the fight against ISIS.
PETER DUTTON:
I always feel on these debates that the Americans are either condemned for having troops there, or they're condemned for not having troops there and in some cases, they can't win. Now, we need to make sure, and I think President Trump, to be honest, has sent very clear messages that he is not interested in seeing the Kurds attacked, he is not interested in seeing the Turkish forces go beyond their mandate. So let's wait and see what happens.
DEB KNIGHT:
Well President Trump himself has tweeted just a few minutes ago that they're looking at imposing sanctions on Turkey. Would Australia consider the same thing?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Australia will do what's in our best interests. The Prime Minister's expressed concern, particularly for those people that have been fighting alongside us or fighting in our interests. We want stability in the region, but look, these are complex issues that have been around for thousands of years and it is a very complex part of the world, and we'll continue to work. Ultimately, our desire is to see Daesh or to see ISIL defeated. We don't want to see resurgence of that terrorist activity. That's the principle aim for us.
RICHARD MARLES:
And I think that's the point to remember. I mean a re-emergence of ISIS in Northern Syria would be absolutely appalling and Syria, over the last decade, has been really the great human tragedy that the world has witnessed. I just hope that this is not the next chapter in Syria's misery. The world is rightly condemning Turkey at the moment, but America could have foreseen that this is what would have happened. I certainly never condemned America for participating in Syria and being a stabilising force there and I think we all watch with enormous gloom about what's playing out there.
DEB KNIGHT:
And there are more than 60 Australian women and children in refugee camps in this area in Syria. Will, Peter, Australia be moving to get them out?
PETER DUTTON:
Well again Deb, it's a very complex picture when you look at the individual cases. There are some people who don't want to come home. There are others that we're told…
DEB KNIGHT:
…there's some who do.
PETER DUTTON:
And there are others that we're told would face, if they return to Australia, would pose a significant security threat to us. There are young kids up to teenage kids obviously, you've got a different response to toddlers than you have young teenage boys, so we've got to work through each of those cases, but the Government's been very clear that we aren't going to put Defence, or DFAT, or Home Affairs personnel at risk.
We need to work through the individual cases. In some circumstances we don't even know whether or not children are Australian citizens. So there are very complex matters to deal with and we're trying to look at it on an individual basis.
RICHARD MARLES:
Yeah, and I actually I think that's a fair response. I mean it is important to be looking after the welfare of children, but the welfare of the Australian public is critical as well, and Peter will obviously have briefings about the individuals concerned, and it's important that we're making sure that we're protecting the Australian public here.
DEB KNIGHT:
Good to have you both and don't get up to too much trouble while Albo's away.
[ends]
