Subjects: Iranian facing drug charges; Refugee Review Tribunal; 501 Character Cancellations; United States resettlement of refugees from Nauru and PNG; Operation Sovereign Borders; Sportsbet; Parliamentary Terms.
E&EO…………………………………………………………………………………………..
ANDREW BOLT:
Joining me is the Immigration Minister Peter Dutton. How did this man get accepted as a refugee?
PETER DUTTON:
Well Andrew, if he was the only case it would be bad enough. The reality is that 50,000 people came on 800 boats and the then Government completely lost control of our borders, lost control of our sovereignty. And every one of these cases needs to serve as a reminder as to why, particularly in the modern age, we need to make sure we have the appropriate settings in place, we put forward those cases which are legitimate, help those people who are most in need, legitimately fleeing persecution and take the others and return them back to the country where they're claiming to flee persecution.
ANDREW BOLT:
Great stuff, but who bought this idea that he was a refugee? How come he's still here?
PETER DUTTON:
Well he's made the case to the then Government that he was a refugee …
ANDREW BOLT:
…Refugee Review Tribunal.
PETER DUTTON:
… and went through the legal process, which is afforded in a very generous way, different options available to these people.
Now, I might be a decision maker in relation to this particular case so I don't want to comment in relation to this specific case, but we introduced Temporary Protection Visas which are reviewed every three years, which would preclude this circumstance from happening again.
ANDREW BOLT:
So if you saw a bloke spending his holidays back in the country he said was too dangerous, you would say hey, listen friend …
PETER DUTTON:
… done. You go back.
ANDREW BOLT:
You're gone.
PETER DUTTON:
And that's the big change.
Now Labor said at the last election that they were going to embrace our success in Operation Sovereign Borders and stop the boats and turn boats back where it was safe to do so.
What they didn't tell people was that they were going to abandon the Temporary Protection Visa element to the policy.
Now that has been one of the pillars of success and without it boats will restart because these people demonstrate that they can come, they can play the system, they get a permanent outcome and then they're here on their pathway to Australian citizenship and that's not what should be allowed. That's what we said we need to stamp out and we have.
ANDREW BOLT:
You know what this also suggests to me? A friend of mine has been serving on the Refugee Review Tribunal and the appeals one as well and it was stacked to the rafters at the time with Labor appointees.
The people that were hard cases, who wouldn’t – you know, hard judges, hard markers and said no you're not a refugee, they were replaced by people – have you removed that stack of bleeding hearts on these tribunals that would accept fake stories like this one?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we've gone through and made a number of appointments. There are a number of people that we haven't reappointed Andrew, so you can draw your own conclusions as to the sort of people that we want to attract and put onto the tribunal.
We want them to respect the law; we want them also though to reflect community views and attitudes and the view of the Australian community is that we are, yes, compassionate, but we're not going to be taken for mugs and if people don't have a case to make out then they can't expect to be successful in their applications.
ANDREW BOLT:
You did send back to New Zealand one immigrant - not a refugee - who got himself on A Current Affair this week to complain about you. He’s Shane Martin, a former Rebels Motorcycle Club President who appeared with his more famous son Richmond AFL star Dustin Martin. Here they are.
[Plays excerpt from A Current Affair]
SHANE MARTIN: Had I committed a murder, or had domestic violence, or had anything to do with a threat to Australia, as they say, I could wear it, but I've got no charges, nothing.
DUSTIN MARTIN: No, because he hasn't done anything wrong. I'm in a footy club, he's in a bikie club.
[End of excerpt]
ANDREW BOLT:
No charges, I've done nothing, why have you thrown me out back to New Zealand. Why were you so cruel?
PETER DUTTON:
We've looked at each of these cases – and again this is a case that's before the courts so I don't have any comment to make in relation to Mr Martin – but we know that Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are involved in the importation and distribution, manufacturing of drugs, of ice, of amphetamines.
ANDREW BOLT:
…and he was head of the New South Wales branch.
PETER DUTTON:
And he was the President. That's open source information. So I can …
ANDREW BOLT:
…plus he's got a rather long record.
PETER DUTTON:
And I also get to see the intelligence reports, Andrew, when I'm making the decisions on these cases and I take all of that information into account.
People can draw their own conclusions about whether we want bikies in this country or not, but for many of the Outlaw Motorcycle Gang Members, they aren't involved in small business, they're not involved in gainful employment. Many of them are involved in extortion, drug distribution and illegal activity otherwise and frankly we're a better place, we're a safer community, a better society without their presence.
ANDREW BOLT:
I find it amazing this sense of entitlement. You know, you can have a long record and you did this and that, head of the Rebels and then weep crocodile tears from across the Tasman Sea when you're thrown out.
But listen, Foreign Minister Julie Bishop is in Washington now for talks with Donald Trump's Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State and no doubt she'll be discussing the deal you made with the Obama administration to send over 1200 or more boat people from Nauru and Manus Island to the US. What still needs sorting out in that agreement? What are you looking for?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I don't think Julie will need to discuss the arrangement in great detail because already President Trump has accepted the transition of the arrangement from the Obama administration into his own.
We've got officials up on Manus at the moment, we've had officials from the US on Nauru in recent weeks, so we're going through the individual cases with them and all of the signs indicate that the officials are working well…
ANDREW BOLT:
…nothing to figure out?
PETER DUTTON:
… and it's the case that we take the US at its word. We appreciate the support of President Trump to continue the arrangement.
ANDREW BOLT:
When do you think the first lot will go over?
PETER DUTTON:
I think we'll have movement in the not-too-distant future, but it's an issue for the US…
ANDREW BOLT:
…what's the not too distant future?
PETER DUTTON:
Well in the next couple of months. I think, as Australia puts quite rightly in the modern age, we decide who comes to our country and we're very serious about that because the US wants to exert the same sovereignty. So they'll look at the individual cases, they'll make the ultimate decision.
But it's working well and we've got a very good relationship with the people from State and Homeland Security and I'm confident that we can get people off Manus and Nauru as quickly as possible.
ANDREW BOLT:
When you and the Prime Minister announced this deal to send the boat people to America instead, I think both of you, or certainly the Prime Minister was suggesting, well, we realise this is going to be a lure to the people smugglers, they're going to get excited that, well, if you can't get to Australia your second prize is pretty damn good, you get to America. Have you noticed any increase in people smuggler activity as a result?
PETER DUTTON:
Well the first point Andrew is that we've been very clear that this arrangement won't apply to any future refugee or person that comes by boat. We've been very clear about that …
ANDREW BOLT:
…this arrangement wasn't going to apply before either so …
PETER DUTTON:
…well, so the people smugglers, you're right. I mean, your point is that people smugglers will try and turn this into a message of hope and pay your money, you'll go to the US or Australia.
There is intelligence out there about people smugglers putting to people that have money, that are willing to get onto a boat, pay your money now and come. So we've increased the number of vessels that we've got at sea, the number of aircraft that we have and surveillance aircraft in the sky.
ANDREW BOLT:
Have they intercepted more boats?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we haven't said publicly what activity there's been and I'll make a statement in due course if that's required, but …
ANDREW BOLT:
…suggests that it is.
PETER DUTTON:
Well I just think it's very important to point out that these people smugglers have not gone away. They're involved in drug running, they're involved in gun running, prostitution.
People smuggling is just another element of their business and if they see an opportunity they'll take it which is why we can't afford to take our foot off the throat of these people smugglers. And it's why they see Labor as a complete hopeless case, a basket case when it comes to border protection and I think we've just got to continue the resolve that we've got. If we don't, we will see new boat arrivals.
ANDREW BOLT:
Now of course the great big mystery is to about why America would bother taking over all our boat people when they've got a problem of course with illegal immigrants themselves.
The Government announced that it was going to take refugees from Costa Rica in Central America, which America wants to get somehow off its hands, although they're in Costa Rica not America. When do we take the first people from there?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we wouldn't take anyone until we had assurances that people were going to go off Nauru and Manus.
ANDREW BOLT:
Alright, so it's quid pro quo. First we lose people and then they come?
PETER DUTTON:
Well we want an outcome in relation to Nauru and Manus, that's the most important thing. My job is to argue our case, the US can argue theirs...
ANDREW BOLT:
…but you said we won't take any from Costa Rica until America's taken ours …
PETER DUTTON:
Well one of the lessons we've learnt from past arrangements, say the Malaysia deal for example, that Julia Gillard entered into, we accepted all the people from Malaysia, not one person went from Australia. So we're not going to be sucked into that sort of a silly outcome.
ANDREW BOLT:
But your answer indicates this was a quid pro quo arrangement?
PETER DUTTON:
Well it was beneficial to the US and it was beneficial to us. The reason it was beneficial …
ANDREW BOLT:
…so it was a deal? It was we'll take yours if you take ours.
PETER DUTTON:
It wasn't a people swap deal, if that's the language people want to use. I don't have any problem with that characterisation if people want to put that. I mean, I act in our best national interest, I think we've done that in this deal.
The US aren't taking any more people in their programme than what they otherwise would've taken during a calendar year. So the point is that the number of 1200 or whatever it turns out to be will be within their window of 50,000 or 55,000…
ANDREW BOLT:
…oh that's for America to sort out. I'm just worried about the Costa Rica business. Because, you know, there is no war there. I know there gangs, armed gangs and all that, but there's no war in the area and these are people that America rejected. Some of them are not actually from the area, they've come from the Middle East. I mean, I wonder why we would be taking these people.
PETER DUTTON:
Well again Andrew, we will look at individual cases that are put to us. So some of the examples that I've been given are Christians who are fleeing that part of the region trying to escape gang violence or they …
ANDREW BOLT:
…they're mostly Christians there.
PETER DUTTON:
…and so we will look at those individual cases. If we determine that they're refugees, then we can take them. If we think they're not, again it's our sovereign right, but I won't be taking in people that I think are a risk to our national security or would detract from our community.
ANDREW BOLT:
Ok. Sportsbet has got you coming through the field as the next Liberal leader. You're now only behind Julie Bishop. You were behind in the field – there was Tony Abbott in front of you, Scott Morrison – coming through like a rocket. What do you think voters are responding to? Is it because you're, A, a conservative when there seems to be a swing to conservatism? Or that you're selling yourself as a plain speaker after all these – well, not selling yourself, you are a plain speaker, after all this fluff and giggle?
PETER DUTTON:
Well look Andrew, from my perspective I hope people see in me somebody who's got characteristics as somebody who's loyal. I was loyal to Tony Abbott and I'm loyal to Malcolm Turnbull and I believe that we pay a transaction cost when we change leaders and that's why I've pledged my loyalty to Malcolm Turnbull.
I want to make sure the Government succeeds because everybody I speak to right across the country, the thought of a Shorten-led, CFMEU-inspired government would be a disaster for small business, for families, the things that you and I care about most.
So for me I want people to see, yes, someone who's genuine, somebody who believes very firmly in conservative causes, in making sure that we support people that have worked all of their lives, I want people to live in a safe society and for me that's what matters most.
I come from a small business background, I was influenced obviously by my policing years, dealt with many victims of crime and so I'm inspired by that to make sure that I can do what I can in this job to keep people safe, to enjoy a great country that we live in, to protect the values of freedom and democracy that we have in this country.
But who am I at my core? I want to be loyal because I think that is what people want.
People want those sorts of qualities and I want to be plain speaking because we live in a time of great uncertainty, we look at what's happening in the Europe and the United States, Asia and elsewhere and so the fact that we need to keep our borders secure and our communities safe I think is more paramount now than it's ever been.
ANDREW BOLT:
What was it? So you were a policeman, just a town copper were you?
PETER DUTTON:
No, so I was in Queensland Police a long time ago, I left in 1999. So I'd worked in the Sex Offenders Squad, I worked in the Drugs Squad, the National Crime Authority, so …
ANDREW BOLT:
…and one day you thought I'd rather be a politician?
PETER DUTTON:
Well I got frustrated to be honest. I mean, I grew up in a small business family where Dad was a builder, so the conversation at the end of the month doing the accounts, particularly during the Keating years and the Hawke years it was always that interest rates were high, it was feast or famine. So politics was discussed, but it was reinforced to me as a police officer where you do hours and weeks of work to arrest a sexual offender that had preyed on a 14 year old, for example, arrest that person, get them before the courts and they get a slap on the wrist.
And soon, you know, as all of us realise, if you want to make the change, if you want to really impact in a positive way, you need to be inside the tent and I can do that from the job that I'm in now and being in the Cabinet and that's why I find it personally very satisfying.
ANDREW BOLT:
Lastly, I've run completely out of time, but I can't let you go without a quick comment on this. You're reported as backing an increase in the term of federal politicians from three years to four that's being promoted by one of your Liberal colleagues. That for Senators means going from six years to eight. Do these guys really think that they're doing such a fabulous job that they ought to face the voters less often?
PETER DUTTON:
Well some of them would put that argument. I'm not sure that I would find that too compelling Andrew, but I think for the lower house having lived through – I was Peter Costello's Assistant Treasurer and having lived through putting Budgets together – three years is a very short cycle and governments have an eye on the election in the second Budget and if you want to do things that provide structural change to the economy, if you want to do things that are worthwhile, I think it's a debate worth having.
ANDREW BOLT:
Do you think the Gillard Government should've got four years not three? Is that what you're saying?
PETER DUTTON:
Well, no. I mean, you torture me through your suggestion. It's a debate…
ANDREW BOLT:
…that's exactly right. That's the problem. Eight years of Jacqui Lambie, come on, come on.
PETER DUTTON:
It's a fair … it's a compelling point.
ANDREW BOLT:
Peter Dutton, thank you so much for your time.
PETER DUTTON:
Thanks Andrew.