SUBJECTS: Announcement of the Counter Terrorism Online Centre, ISIS families returning to Australia
TONY BURKE: This announcement today, obviously there's other issues that have broken in the last half hour that I respect completely there'll be questions about. But let me start with the announcement which had always been planned for today because in terms of national security and keeping people safe, it is an extraordinarily significant announcement.
Today we're announcing that the Albanese Government will provide $74 million over two years for the Counter Terrorism Online Centre. Back in August 2024, when the threat alert level was raised, the Director General of ASIO, Mike Burgess, made clear that in raising it, it wasn't because the terror cells out there were in some way organising something specific that we were aware of or that there were specific plans in place. It was because, in addition to what had always been there, we had a new emerging threat online. Effectively, we had four characteristics which were not traditionally part of how we would regard counter terrorism operations in Australia. And effectively, those four features were increasing. We had people being radicalised online, being radicalised fast, having mixed ideology and not necessarily the traditional ideologies that might be attached to terrorism. And finally, people being young. Those four characteristics effectively meant that radicalisation, which we might have always associated with the meeting room, was now also happening in the chat room and the nature of people being young. If you just take this figure into account - In 2024, we gave new powers to the Australian Federal Police. New offences were created in terms of the distribution online or possession online of radicalised material, of violent extremist material.
In the time since those laws were put in place, the Australian Federal Police have put in 31 charges. Of those 31 charges, 19 are minors. 19 out of the 31 people who have been charged have been minors. This feature of young people being radicalised fast online is real. And the agencies, as is evident in those charges that have been brought to bear by the Australian Federal Police, have been acting on this. But establishing the centre is the next logical step in being able to make sure that our agencies can work together to be able to deal with a threat that is already there, that is continuing to emerge. We've seen these centres already work. We have one that deals with cyber. It's been working. We have a centre that deals with child exploitation. It has been doing very effective work. We now need to have a centre that deals with online radicalisation, and that's what we announced today, to be established to be able to deal with the emerging threat. I'll add, in terms of this emerging threat that we need to remember, this is also going to be a situation where bad actors, their capacity gets turbocharged by the development of artificial intelligence. If you think about the radicalisation of young men, in particular, while they're playing on gaming platforms, up until now, threat actors, if they're wanting to engage with them on whatever chat app they might be using alongside or adjacent to the game that they're playing, have had to always been genuine people, not genuine – like bad actors, but they've had to be people. Now, with artificial intelligence, the conversations that are happening in the first instance may well be with bots, they may well be with somebody whose voice is being mimicked to sound younger and even being translated in real-time. When that is what the threat actors have, we need to make sure that the capacity to use the latest technology is also there for our people. And so there will be a specific artificial intelligence capacity that this online centre will also have to be able to keep Australians safe.
There are further details that I've already put out there in a statement with respect to, with respect to, ISIS families. Can I simply add to what's already in the statement by saying the following. The government is not repatriating and will not repatriate. The government is not assisting and will not assist these individuals. They made an appalling, disgraceful decision. If any of these individuals find their way back to Australia, if they have committed crimes, they can expect to face the full force of the law without exception. I'll now hand over to the Director General of ASIO, Mike Burgess, to be followed by the Commissioner of the Australian Federal Police, Krissy Barrett.
MIKE BURGESS: Thank you, Minister, and good morning.
Australia's national terrorism threat level remains at Probable, but I'm also concerned about the temperature and trajectory of our threat environment. The most likely act of politically motivated violence will occur with little to no warning and in ways that are difficult to detect. In the last few months, Australia has endured the tragic terrorist attack at Bondi. A Western Australian man charged with terrorism offences after allegedly throwing a homemade bomb into an indigenous rally. And a man charged with allegedly planning a mass casualty attack on WA's Parliament House, police headquarters and mosques. In a security environment where radicalisation increasingly occurs online and extremists increasingly engage with each other in encrypted chat groups, ASIO must be online too.
I continue to be extremely concerned by the number of young people, particularly young men, who are being radicalised online and mobilising to violence relatively quickly with little to no warning. The extremists we look at, almost by definition are security conscious and suspicious of outsiders. People who self-radicalise online are often show few if any real-world indicators they are mobilising to violence. Online operations are often the only way we can have identify and engage with these individuals so we can understand their intent, their capability, their identity and their targets.
In January this year, ASIO's covert online operations team gained access to a neo-Nazi chat group. One of the participants allegedly posted violent extremist material. We acted immediately. Posing as a violent extremist. One of our operators engaged directly with the individual, trying to determine their identity and assess whether it was just big talk or something more sinister. Our intelligence led to the action by WA Police, resulting in a man being charged and arrested or allegedly charged against planning a mass casualty attack. This highlights the capability need and demonstrates the benefit. I therefore welcome the Government's decision to invest directly in these capabilities.
Gaining access to extremists and their chat groups requires training, resources, time, specialist knowledge and specialist technology. This investment will uplift the number of people we, ASIO and the Australian Federal Police, have engaging in online operations and invest in the tools they need to help identify and disrupt targets before they move to real-world violence. The challenge posed by online radicalisation and encryption is significant and continues to grow. And this investment will improve our ability to identify and monitor Sunni violent extremists, nationalist and racist violent extremists, anarchist and revolutionary violent extremists and any other entities that advocate politically motivated violence. And this will make a significant contribution to our collective capabilities to protect Australia and Australians. Thank you. Commissioner.
KRISSY BARRETT: Thank you and good morning. Terrorists and hate mongers are manipulating vulnerable and susceptible individuals at rapid speed, in part because of existing and emerging technology and the blurred boundary of the virtual and the real worlds. It used to take months or years to radicalise an individual, but now in some cases, it is happening within days. The speed and scale of radicalization is becoming one of our most significant challenges, especially when it comes to youth. Too many of our young and vulnerable are at the crossroads to crime and too many are already desensitised to violence, given what they have been viewing or creating online. We need to use a combination of human intelligence and artificial intelligence to disrupt and detect the extremist recruitersand inciters, while protecting and diverting those at risk. Shielding kids from manipulation and harm is one of my key priorities as Commissioner. The Counter Terrorism Online Centre will allow ASIO and the AFP to identify, target and disrupt credible threats which will be triaged and coordinated for action. The new capability will also provide an early warning system for the nation's joint counter terrorism teams about emerging hate groups and individuals who use social media, gaming platforms, online forums and our dark web to incite and commit violence. Thank you.
BURKE: So, with questions, we might start over here and go straight across.
JOURNALIST: Minister, has the government made any attempt to delay or block the return of the so-called ISIS bribes to Australia?
BURKE: There are very serious limits on what can be done with respect to preventing a citizen of a country returning to their country. The legal threshold that we have is with respect to temporary exclusion orders. I have received advice in oneinstance so far of that threshold having been met and when I received that advice I acted immediately and that exclusion order remains in place.
JOURNALIST: Has the government received any further advice in relation to temporary exclusion orders? And further to that, how long have you or the government been aware that this cohort are on their way?
BURKE: Certainly, the situation from the moment the individuals left the camp, was obviously, it was clear that they would be trying to leave Damascus and to leave somewhere. The alert is received the moment the booking takes place. And so that was provided to us this morning and we've made it public this morning. I've received advice that one person so far has reached the legal threshold and I've acted and put the exclusion order in place.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Burgess, may I ask. The Royal Commission identified ASIO's share of funding to counter terror has fallen significantly. Why has ASIO's share of funding to counter terror fallen significantly? Why did you decide to reprioritise funding away from counter terror?
BURGESS: There's a couple of things in terms of the answer to that question. If you're referring to the Royal Commission talking about the overall investment by the national intelligence community in a thing called terrorism and violent extremism… yes, that had reduced over the years. ASIO's overall funding had not reduced over a number of years.
JOURNALIST: It explicitly identifies that ASIO's share of account funding the counter terror has.
BURGESS. So, you'd appreciate with the Royal Commission, I'll save my… the right [inaudible} questions that I get to the Royal Commission, but to answer your question here… ASIO's job is to identify the threat and follow the threat so it can be understood and through the actions of my agency and our partners, Australian Federal Police, state and territory police or policy actions of government, that threat is dealt with. I'm on the public record since I've been Director General frequently and annually on the annual threat assessment. Our job as we identify that threat, we follow that threat and my agency has identified that threat, called it out publicly. We lowered the threat level in November 22, we raised it in August 24 and the resources were adjusted accordingly with the threat levels. And I can assure you and anyone listening to this that our resources applied to priorities and threat to life is a priority for my organisation.
JOURNALIST: Just on the ISIS families, does ASIO identify any risks to national Security?
BURGESS. So, our job is to identify and understand the risks to returning individuals. We have done that. We provided it to our mates in the police force and the government understands our assessed risk. The actions my agency takes beyond that is something I don't talk about publicly. Of course, police have their own authorities and powers and as the Minister said, the full force of the law will be applied to returning individuals
JOURNALIST: To the Commissioner. Commissioner, an extension to that question. Have you got an idea of the resources you'll need to commit to surveillance of these individuals and the costs that might be involved? Separately, you've faced a lot of criticism of your organisation for the public nature of the arrest of Ben Roberts-Smith and for the alleged leaking of the details of that. Are you re-examining the way that arrest took place and the way the vision was distributed publicly?
BARRETT: Thank you for your question. There is some important community messaging that I would like to provide today in relation to the women and children.
So, firstly, the AFP Community Liaison teams have been working behind the scenes for some time now, meeting and listening to impacted communities. And today I want to provide community reassurance to every Australian because it is important they know how advanced and how thorough our investigations are into individuals who are alleged to have travelled to Syria during the ISIS caliphate. Operational planning for the return of these individual states started in 2015. It was then formalised under an overarching coordination operation named Operation Kurrajong. ASIO, the AFP and state and territory law enforcement partners have been working together on Operation Kurrajong through our joint counter terrorism teams and the joint counter terrorism teams, can I remind you, include some of the most experienced national security investigators and analysts in this country.
So, for more than a decade, investigators, when possible, have been collecting evidence and information in Syria, at a time when Syria was a war zone with no functioning government. That evidence and information was to determine whether Australians who travelled to Syria may have committed Commonwealth offences, including terrorism, offences such as entering or remaining in declared areas, and crimes against humanity offences such as engaging in slave trading. I will not flag how many individuals will be arrested or when they will be arrested to protect a number of our investigations. However, I will confirm these points. Some individuals will be arrested and charged. Some will face continued investigations when they arrive in Australia. And children who return in the cohort will be asked to undergo community integration programs, therapeutic support and countering violent extremism programs. I won't comment any further today, only to say the AFP and our partners, where possible, will provide updates at the appropriate time for two important reasons. One, Australians need to know that law enforcement and security agencies are doing everything they can to keep them safe and two, that individuals are held to account for their actions. To your other question, that matter is now before court that you were referring to. So, I won't be making public comment in relation to that today.
JOURNALIST: [indistinct]?
BARRETT: I won't be making public comment and that is before court. Thank you.
JOURNALIST: Commissioner Barrett, just on your comments just then about the potential of the flight, there will be arrests. Can I just clarify whether that applies to the cohort that's currently coming in or is it more broader comments?
BARRETT: So, the investigations that I'm referring to that commenced in 2015 refer to the whole cohort. Obviously, we have a portion of that cohort that are returning, well, we believe are returning. So, my comments around arrests will be made refer to that cohort. But of course, we have ongoing investigations and plans planning in place for the remainder of the cohort that may seek to return at some point.
JOURNALIST: Minister Burke, if I may just on today's announcement, do you believe, I guess can government play a greater role in legislating rules around gaming platforms in particular, for example, gaming platforms, social media platforms, that kind of thing, in order so they better monitor the presence of this sort
[indistinct] terrorist groups on their platforms?
BURKE: Yeah, the, the challenge that we have with a number of these platforms is often the dangerous conversations are not within the game itself, but within platforms that people use adjacent to gaming. So effectively where the conversations are happening while they are engaging in gaming itself. So, I know that the eSafety Commissioner has made specific comments and has been looking carefully at where you draw the line on these. And so a lot of your question goes to those specific powers which are not held by me and that go to a slightly different angle where Anika Wells is a relevant minister. But certainly for our purposes, the best situation from counter terrorism is to intercept early.
The earlier we can intercept, the safer we can have the Australian community. And effectively to provide this additional resource, the best outcomes are the ones that no one ever knows about for the simple reason that the interception happened early, the deradicalisation happened early and we were able to get in there and avoid it. I don't want to create some sort of impression that every young male who's engaging on a gaming platform is somehow in a specifically dangerous circumstance. There's a whole lot of people in their bedrooms who are just playing whatever game that they want. Whether or not we need to do something in terms of platform-by-platform under the social media rules we have, as I say, is something which the eSafety Commissioner provides us advice on. What this new centre does, though, is maximises the chance of early interception and that makes a fundamental difference to the safety of Australians on the centre.
JOURNALIST: Mr Burke --
BURKE: Sorry, can I just go to where the question hadn't been asked.
JOURNALIST: Mr Burke, can I ask you, given the circumstances, was this group that are now trying to return to Australia given less consulate and other assistance and other citizens, and why? And if I can ask the Commissioner as well, there are concerns raised by this group that some were trafficked or coerced into going into Syria. Can you speak to those concerns? Are these briefs being prepared for terrorism offences? And to the Director General as well, if I could just clarify with you, given the amount of public interest in this case and the focus on it, can you be clear about whether you think this group poses an ongoing terrorism security threat?
BURKE. So, if I start first of all, the individuals concerned travelled to join one of the most horrific or travelled in support of one of the most horrific terrorist organisations we've seen in recent history or in our lifetimes. And, the, there is a reason why the Government has drawn a very hard line saying we will do nothing to assist. I might… You've asked a lot of questions, so I'll go to the Commissioner next.
JOURNALIST: So, you agree they were given less assistance and quite explicitly?
BURKE. So, I believe the Government's. The Government's complete lack of support for these individuals is a direct reflection of the decisions that they made.
BARRETT. So, to your question, we will have more to say in relation to specific charges when we can. But you will note that I referred to a number of offences that we would be considering when I spoke previously. Part of those offences is looking at someone's state of mind and their intent and their awareness and understanding of the situation they were in. So, that most definitely forms part of the extensive investigations that we have done and in fact goes to us being able to prove or make the allegations and place those charges. So, yes, that is something that has been factored into part of our investigations, of course.
JOURNALIST: So, do you hold direct concerns, at least some [inaudible] they were trafficked?
BARRETT: I'm not going to speak to specifics. What I can say, as I have said already, that a number will be arrested, there will be charges. I've outlined some of the potential charges, and I can and just assure you that as part of our investigations, of course, all of that is considered and forms part of the investigation.
BURGESS: And to answer your last question, the individuals that we know or understand to be returning does not change the national terrorism threat level. Of course, it's up to them what they do when they get here. And if they start to exhibit signs of concern as we and the police, through the joint counter terrorism teams, will take action. But I'm not concerned immediately by their return, but they will get our attention, as you'd expect.
JOURNALIST: Mr. Burke, last week the Syrian Government said that it had stopped this group reaching Damascus Airport because the Australian Government had refused to receive them. So, what has changed since then?
BURKE: The position of the Australian Government has been completely unchanged the entire way through this. We have made our comments public. Every view that the Australian Government has on this has been made public and has been reported by yourselves.
JOURNALIST: Minister, do you condemn Dr. Jamal Rifi, who's reportedly been a longtime political associate of yours, for his role in trying to return this kind of woman?
BURKE: He and I have fundamentally different views on this, and he's aware of that.
JOURNALIST: Do you condemn his actions?
BURKE: I'm not going to take dictation in terms of language. I've given you my answer.
JOURNALIST: I’m asking a question.
BURKE: No, no.I've given my response to it.
JOURNALIST: But why not condemned him, though?
JOURNALIST: What conditions, if any, will be placed on this cohort? And when they do arrive back in Australia, I mean, what's the process from there? If for those who aren't arrested, will we be monitoring where they live? Is there a particular place that you know you'll be taking them to? What's the process?
BURKE: Yeah, you go into some fairly specific operational issues that I suspect the agencies either side of me would not want to go into detail on. People should have complete confidence that since 2014, there have been specific arrangements in place as to what would happen when people returned. Let's remember there have been Australian citizens returned under the previous government who were not women and children, who were men, who had gone to fight. And our agencies have had the resources and the powers to provide the full levels of, well the full powers, let's put it in those terms, to be able to do what's required for keeping people safe. And there is no doubt if they can do it with those parts of the cohort they're able to do it with these individuals.
JOURNALIST: May I ask, on the online counterterror centre, the AFP as well recently stood up the national security investigation squads, you've stood up this online counterterror centre, you've acknowledged these sort of blended risks. But this is not a new problem, of course. Social media has been radicalising for more than a decade. Did we have a capability gap that this is addressing? And does that mean that there were perhaps silos and information blind spots leading up to Bondi?
BURKE: I think the Director General has already given an example, a very specific example of work that our agencies are already doing in this exact space and work where, while the matter is still to be appear before a court with respect to that Western Australian arrest, work where it will be alleged that had it not been for that arrest, there would have been a significant risk to community safety. So, we should not view the centre as day one of there being a capability to work online. Our agencies have already been doing that and they've been protecting Australians lives through their work in doing that.
Establishing a centre is the next step. If you take for example, what was established when Peter Dutton held my job and that was when you had the establishment and the planning for the child protection centre. It wasn't like child protection was brand new to the agencies, they were already doing it. But it was clear that they could go to the next level of capability by having a centre where ASIO and the Australian Federal Police were there in the same place each day, working together, keeping children safe. In the same way this is the next evolution, if you like, of that capability. It's a very significant step forward, it's significant money, it's a significant step forward in capability and it will make a difference in our number one priority of keeping Australians safe.
JOURNALIST: Significant money, but it is for two years. Why not fund it on an enduring basis? And a related question, your department is offering voluntary redundancies. Can you rule out that happening in the Federal Police or indeed at ASIO?
BURKE: I'll let agencies refer to anything with respect to their own agencies. In terms of just the first part again?
JOURNALIST: The funding for this looks like a two-year period.
BURKE: Oh, sorry, yeah. The funding is what is required to be able to get this set up. You don't… It's not an on-off switch that suddenly from day one, this is here, and effectively after the first two-years we'll be able to have a sense of what funding is required on an ongoing basis for this. If it took three years to set up, we would have put three years of funding if it took 12 months to set up, we would have put that in. It takes two years effectively to be able to set this up. And so that's why that's the initial funding that's put forward. We would then make an assessment as to what was required ongoing.
Okay, thanks.
