Subjects: Immigration
OLIVER PATERSON, HOST: Plenty of you were keen to weigh in yesterday on the Coalition's new immigration plans. Australia's value statement would be legally binding under the opposition's plans, which includes expanded social media checks on visa applicants and a new screening agency. So, will the federal government adjust any of their settings in light of what their opponents are proposing? Matt Thistlethwaite is the Assistant Minister for Immigration and he joins me now. Good afternoon.
MATT THISTLETHWAITE, ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION: Good afternoon, Oly. Thanks for having me on.
PETERSON: My pleasure. Do you see that Australian values need to be legalised in visa applications?
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, Australian values already are legalised. They're legalised in our discrimination laws, in our laws associated with freedom of speech, freedom of association. And it's a fact that if someone breaks the law and they're on a visa, then their visa is cancelled and they are deported. So, it's really a bit of a smoke and mirrors policy that they've come up with regarding this value statement, because anyone that's a permanent resident to Australia has to sign an Australian value statement. And one of the things that they commit to in signing that, is to uphold the rule of law in Australia.
PETERSON: Do you believe the immigration is currently too high in Australia?
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, when we came to office, net overseas migration in 2022 was around 540,000. That was in the wake of COVID we've got it down to 305,000, but we know that there's more work to do. We've got some reforms that will be coming up soon that will tackle some of the overstayers, people who've been here on a visa whose term has run out, but aren't going. Our belief is that if you come to Australia on a temporary visa, once that temporary visa has expired, you should leave the country.
PETERSON: Do you admit, though, that there is some sentiment within Australia at the moment? Because there's some people who feel that the current pressure on housing and our health system in particular, is directly linked to the number of people coming. Coming to Australia to work and to study.
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Yeah look, I certainly understand that many Australians, particularly households, are under a lot of cost of living pressure and there is an issue with the cost of housing in Australia, and our Government's aware of that. And that's why we're putting in place measures like the Housing Australia Future Fund, record investments with state governments in building new supplies of housing. But we also have to realise that a lot of those houses will be built by migrants, because we have some huge skill shortages, particularly in the construction industry in Australia. So, we need more carpenters, more plumbers more bricklayers, more plasterers, more renderers to build these homes for Australians. So, it's a very simplistic argument to say that we're just going to cut migration because two thirds of our migration is skilled migrants that are building the homes for Australians.
PETERSON: In the year ending 30 June 25, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 306,000 people to Australia's population. It was down from the net gain of 429,000 people the previous year. What is a sustainable annual net overseas migration figure? Matt, what are you aiming for in this current financial year?
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, our aim is around 185,000 new permanent migrants per year. The majority of those, three quarters of them will be skilled migrants coming to Australia. Net overseas migration is a bit of a deceptive figure because it includes Australians, Australian citizens who are living overseas and return home. That's why we got a big spike in the numbers post COVID, because we had Australians who were living and working overseas that came back home. The better indicator is in the permanent migration figure. And our aim at the moment, and our figure is at 185,000. That's what we believe is sustainable, to ensure that we get the skilled migrants that we need to build the homes, to look after our elderly and to care for those with disabilities.
PETERSON: Yeah, and plenty of the callers to this program yesterday understand that we need migrants to help our country prosper, to self sustain. We need doctors, nurses, builders, of course, chefs, engineers, childcare workers, aged care workers and so on. But where do we cut back on Matt? Which industry in need of workers would take a hit? Is it our universities? Because the largest group of migrant arrivals in 24-5 was temporary students, 157,000 people. Do we need to wind back international student numbers further? Is it backpackers? Do we need to cap the number of working holiday visas?
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Well, we certainly believe that we need skilled migrants and the majority of the program, as I said, three quarters of it is, is aimed at skilled migration. But we do have opportunities for temporary migrants, like working holiday maker, like student visas. We've taken a number of steps recently to standardise and to disperse some of the student numbers so that we're getting more students studying in rural regional areas rather than in the capital cities. And we've put in place planning levels to ensure that those numbers are more sustainable. So, in certain areas we have cut back on the number of people on temporary migrants. But the focus overwhelmingly of our migration program is to deliver skilled migrants so that we have the people with the skills to do the work that we need to grow our economy.
PETERSON: Immigration policy is obviously complex. Do you acknowledge that perhaps your government has not done a good enough job explaining it to Australians and explaining what you're doing about it? Because the popularity of One Nation's surging and those voters feel unheard by you. Not only unheard, they're starting to feel dismissed.
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Yeah, look, it's a complex issue and I certainly understand that Australians are dealing with cost of living pressures and it's easy to look to blame others when you're in a difficult financial situation with your family. But the facts are that we do need migrants in the skilled category if we're going to build the homes that we need. If you look at most aged care facilities now, the people that are looking after our elderly Australians are migrants. I've got a first class hospital in my electorate. Many of the nurses that work there are from Ireland or from the UK. They are providing the jobs and the services that we need to continue to look after Australians and to grow our economy. We want to make sure that the migration system is sustainable. That's why we've made a lot of reforms and that it caters for the needs of Australians so that we can have the jobs that we need in certain industries and grow the economy at the same time.
PETERSON: When I spoke to Angus Taylor yesterday, he said that there are 60,000 people in Australia right now who have exhausted all lines of appeal and they're overstaying their visas. Is that accurate, Matt? And why are they still here? Can you send those people home?
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Most of those people will have been here for quite a while, so a lot of them would have come under the previous government. A lot of them would have been here for more than 10 years. But it is true that we do have a number of people who come to Australia on a temporary visa. Maybe it's a student visa, maybe it's a working holiday maker visa. And they'll then attempt to hop to another visa and hop on another visa after that to try and remain in Australia for as long as they can. Some of them may claim protection. They've had that protection application assessed by the department, it is found not to be valid, then they'll appeal through the court system. Our view is if you come to Australia on a temporary visa, once the period of that visa has ended, you should leave. And if you want to apply for another visa, then go offshore and do that. Now, we're putting in place measures to reduce those numbers, but it does take time and we're about to announce a new set of reforms in the coming months that will deal with some of that backlog as well.
PETERSON: So, is there some merit in Angus Taylor's idea about establishing a so called enhanced screening coordination centre? It would have intelligence screening enforcement capabilities because he told me yesterday here on Drive, its job will be to screen out, quote, terrorist sympathisers and security risks before they come to Australia by obviously reviewing things like social media accounts.
ASSISTANT MINISTER: That happens already. You cannot come to Australia on a visa if you have a criminal record. You cannot come to Australia if there's any evidence that you've been involved in antisemitic activities or Islamophobic activities or any discrimination against other people. If you've been involved in any outlaw motorcycle gangs or stuff like that, you will not get a visa to come to Australia. And Oly, I've personally denied visas to people because they've expressed antisemitic or Islamophobic views on social media. So, what Angus Taylor is talking about already occurs and I've personally used that power under the migration act to deny people visas.
PETERSON: Matt Thistlethwaite, thank you very much for your time.
ASSISTANT MINISTER: Thanks, Oly.
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