Subjects: Unsustainable migration levels, expediting visa approvals, High Commissioner cancelling Australia Day event.

KIERAN GILBERT: Joining me live in the studio is the Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neil. Minister, thank you for your time. 510,000 in 22/2023. In hindsight is there more the Government could have done to have kept a lid on that number?

CLARE O'NEIL: Kieran, we've got to put that number into context. Remember that we had our borders shut for the better part of two years, and when Labor came to government we were in the grips of the worst labour shortage that our country has experienced for 70 years. And that was really impacting the lives of everyone who's watching at home right now. Fruit was rotting on vines, we had pubs that couldn't open their dining rooms because there were no staff. We had nurses ‑ you couldn't find a nurse in a hospital; you couldn't find a teacher in a school. And at the time there was political consensus that we needed to bring more people to the country to address that long border closure. Now we did that.

I would say the migration levels today are not sustainable. They are too high and it's very important that we maintain social licence to continue to run a migration system. It's essential to our safety, our prosperity as a country, and that's why the Government is taking that really strong action now to bring numbers back to normal.

If I can just say one more thing. Your viewers should understand our population is actually not yet back to where it would have been but for that border closure, but we've caught up quite a bit. Now it's time to come back into normal operating.

KIERAN GILBERT: And the normal operating, is that about a quarter of a million? Looking at the mid‑year budget update number, which Jim Chalmers and Katy Gallagher release on Wednesday, but it comes back to about a quarter of a million. Is that about where it should be in terms of net overseas migration?

CLARE O'NEIL: That's about normal and what we need to do is bring that back to a sustainable level. We've got pressures on housing in our cities, we've got serious pressures on infrastructure, and we certainly need to bring the migration numbers back to normal. So that's what the changes will do. And if your viewers at home think about it, that is a very dramatic change to our migration numbers over what will be a two-year period.

But, Kieran, I would say also the numbers are a big focus right now and I completely understand that, but the Government's launch today is not just about numbers, it's actually about a redesign of our migration system, one of the most important things that the Australian Government does, and the fix that we are putting on a system that was fundamentally broken when we arrived in office.

So there's a lot going on here about the policy, about who comes here, as well as how many.

KIERAN GILBERT: When you look at that structure, explain to our viewers what's the key change? I know it's a very complex, very detailed document, but I'm looking at things like the language standards for international students changes, you've got the visa for skilled workers. What in your mind is the key structural shift here that makes this system more sustainable?

CLARE O'NEIL: The most important thing that's broken about the system at the moment is that it's basically designed backwards. So we should have a migration system that brings the very best and brightest into our country to help us solve national challenges. That's been the core of everything that's worked about migration in our country over a long period of time.

But what the system does today is make it very hard for high skilled people to come in on permanent visas, but we've created all these side doors and back doors into the migration system and the biggest one is international students. And these are being used as back doors into our labour market and resulting in widespread worker exploitation and lots of problems for the Australian community that we don't want from our migration system.

So the big fix here in our project is not just about addressing the numbers problem, which is very urgent just at the moment, but also really thinking carefully about how we reorient this system to help us solve those big problems. Think about our productivity challenge, our ageing population, the shift to net‑zero. We need skills here to help us do that, but under our current settings they won't be able to come.

KIERAN GILBERT: It sounds like massive ‑ well there's a couple of elements to this that could see a huge productivity boost. One would be if you do achieve that aim to expedite visa approvals, so we don't lose potential workers in the digital economy, in the tech space, for example. Also those really elite higher end migrants, say someone ‑ I think Brian Schmidt's been referred to, the outgoing Vice‑Chancellor Nobel laureate from the ANU, an American, that sort of person. I mean we'd love to have as many Brian Schmidts as possible.

So how do you attract those really important researchers and groundbreaking individuals? Because they will add a lot to our economy.

CLARE O'NEIL: Completely, completely. And so the task for Government here is to rebalance this system, to clean up that bottom end where we see a lot of integrity issues, but at the same time provide easier pathways for the best and brightest who we desperately need here to come and help us solve our national problems.

The problem in the migration system at the moment, or one of the many problems, is that someone like Brian Schmidt who is a world‑renowned astrophysicist, he came to Australia in the 1990s and got his visa approved in four days. For today's Brian Schmidt, they might wait for months for a visa, they have to jump through all kinds of hoops, and remember that we're in a war for talent here with countries like Canada, like the US, like New Zealand, and if we don't make quick, easy pathways for the very best and brightest, then today's Brian Schmidt would never have come and he would have left his Nobel prize in Canada or the US as well.

So I just think for your viewers, like think about the power of one migrant, the difference that they can make to our community. We want more of those people, but we also need to run a system where we're thinking about the numbers at the bottom and international students is that big issue for the Government at the moment.

KIERAN GILBERT: And you do want to simplify the system as we alluded to. When in your mind, what's the end date for this? When will this reform be done?

CLARE O'NEIL: Martin Parkinson, who's a very renowned and a political public servant, did a big review for us before we set down this policy framework, and what he told us was that the system was broken, that it was broken because of 10 years of what he called wilful neglect, and that it was going to take a 10 year rebuild to fix the system. Now I don't have 10 years so I'm not willing to accept the 10-year time frame, but I would agree that it's going to take us some time.

The migration strategy lays out a plan. It talks about the very important things the Government has already done in the time we've been in office. It makes 25 really specific announcements that we're basically implementing as of today and in the next year which will address some of the issues that we've already talked about. And then it lays out a path of work to come.

A simplification agenda is really important. We have this visa system that's crazy complicated. No one knows how to use this system. For people trying to come to work here, for families, for businesses, it's not working. So we do need to address that and the big unlock there is an IT investment. It might sound a bit boring to talk about but basically this visa processing system that helps us decide what order we process visas in is the key to unlocking the system.

So we're doing some simplification already, but we need to get that investment happening before we can get down to what I would like to see, a much simpler system for the country.

KIERAN GILBERT: And you've said it, you said earlier in the interview it's not just about the number. I know the Coalition is having a crack at this strategy, saying that in the May budget it was forecast I think from memory to be 1.5 million across the forward estimates. This is going to be 1.6 million or thereabouts in terms of the number of migrants. So no reduction. In your mind does that matter or is it about you getting it back to normal and it's the quality of the process that counts?

CLARE O'NEIL: Well let me make a few points. I think the first is there are dramatic reductions in numbers here. We had a significant increase in migration that one year after the borders had been shut for two years. And again remember the labour shortage that we were experiencing.

We are making very significant reductions in migration so we can get this system back to sustainable. And I just say as politely as I can to those on the Liberal side trying to commentate on this, they pick a different position, you know, whichever way the political winds are blowing.

A year ago, in the last few months even, they were advocating for more migrants more quickly, now they're saying there's too many. I'd just really like them to engage in a constructive debate here. We've got a really big problem. They left us with a totally broken system. I haven't heard anyone dispute that fact. I'd actually like their help to fix it, but I'd say you've got to get into the tent here, work with us like the BCA have, like the Australian Council of Trade Unions have, like the Tech Council have. We have got so much endorsement for this. It's just about the only people that don't like it are the Liberals, and that says something about them.

KIERAN GILBERT: Well the Greens don't either. The Greens say you're engaging in a race to the bottom of migration with Peter Dutton.

CLARE O'NEIL: Okay.

KIERAN GILBERT: Nick McKim says you're appeasing Peter Dutton on migration issues. What's your assessment of the Greens' analysis of this?

CLARE O'NEIL: Well I think the Greens have got to move into the real world where the rest of us live. It is madness to think that migration levels of this size are not having an impact on housing, on infrastructure, on life in particular in our major cities. I don't think there's anything productive or rude about that. But I mean I'm a huge advocate for migration in our country. I hope your viewers can see that. That doesn't mean that any and all migration is good for our nation. We've got a system at the moment that's fundamentally broken, and it is a great and big thing for our Government to do, to take on this big project to try to fix it.

KIERAN GILBERT: Just finally on one other issue. I spoke to Dan Tehan earlier about the strategy, but I also asked him about this decision. Stephen Smith as High Commissioner has cancelled an Australia Day event at the High Commission Australia House. Dan Tehan and others in the Opposition calling on Anthony Albanese to intervene and restore this Australia Day event. Have you got any thoughts on this as Cabinet Minister? Is this something that a High Commissioner should leave well alone if it's been in place for over 20 years honouring our national day?

CLARE O'NEIL: Well my strong view is that Australia Day is the 26th of January, that's the Government's position and we don't seek to do anything to change that. As for what the High Commission does, I don't have a lot of control over that to be totally honest with you, Kieran. I've got bigger problems right now trying to fix the Liberals broken migration system and that's really where my focus is.

KIERAN GILBERT: Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neil, thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

CLARE O'NEIL: Thanks Kieran.

--END--