​SUBJECTS: Multiculturalism, Migration, CGT

PATRICIA KARVELAS (HOST): For more I'm joined this afternoon by Anne Aly, who is actually the Multicultural Affairs Minister, also the Minister for Small Business. Welcome to the program.

ANNE ALY: Thank you so much, Patricia.

HOST: Pauline Hanson has delivered a statement to the Senate clarifying what she means by monoculture. She said in that statement that the Socceroos, 'cause they've been cited many times as the best of Australia and a version of our multiculturalism, actually fit her definition of a monoculture because they play under one flag, they're all united, they're Australian. She says that's the monoculture she's talking about. Is that fair?

ALY: Well, I think Pauline Hanson really prides herself on being consistent, and talks about having been consistent over the last 30 years; and consistently over the last 30 years, what we've seen from Pauline Hanson, and what we've heard from Pauline Hanson is nothing but contempt for migrants and refugees and for multiculturalism.

And I think now she's standing up and she's blaming Australian people for getting it wrong, for misinterpreting her, for misunderstanding her, and using the Socceroos to try and make her views more palatable.

I'll tell you this, Patricia, under Pauline Hanson's monoculturalism, there would be no soccer, there'd be no Socceroos, there'd be no Cahill, no Foster, no Aloisi, no Irankunda, no Mabil. There'd be none of that, and there would be no SBS or ABC broadcasting the league either.

HOST: Okay. She says that her idea is about that they are all in the same jersey though, that it doesn't matter where you come from. She says she's not against a multi-race nation, it's just a one culture nation. I don't know. What are we talking about here? I feel like kind of this debate is getting very confusing for people about what means what.

ALY: I think she deliberately does that, I honestly think Pauline Hanson deliberately is trying to muddy the waters, but you have to look, as I said, as she has said, she has been consistent over the last 30 years.

But let's talk about what that means. When people take the pledge for citizenship, they pledge allegiance to Australia and to the people, to the rights and values and to obey and respect the law. That's what makes people Australian, that's what makes people Australian. It doesn't matter whether you wear a Sari or a Turban or a Hijab or a Cheongsam or an Iaido. It doesn't matter what language you speak at home, it doesn't matter if you pray at a Temple or a Church or a Mosque. All of those things don't matter. What makes you Australian is a shared sense of identity and belonging.

Now that sense of identity and belonging, and you know, I feel like I'm talking to somebody who gets it here, Patricia, what makes you, you is where you came from; you bring that with you when you come to a country, and it's part of who you are, it's part of your identity. It doesn't mean you're less Australian, but it means that there is an understanding and a respect for the individuality of diversity and what that brings, and the value that brings to our nation.

And that's exactly why the Socceroos are so successful, it is not because they all wear the same jersey. They're not monocultural. Let's make that clear.

HOST: We've always said we're a multicultural nation, and now that's seems to be under some sort of strain. There was a Lowy study that showed that actually support for multiculturalism, it's still strong in Australia to be fair, but it's a lot lower than it used to be. Does that worry you?

ALY: I will look at the more optimistic part, the glass half full, and say that it's still strong, and I think historically it's always been strong.

HOST: But if it's eroded, doesn't that show that something's going on?

ALY: Look, I think yes, of course, I think it's not something that we should just take for granted, I think we have to be consistently vigilant about protecting what it is that makes our nation great, and the contributions that multiculturalism has made to nation building and to the Australia that we are today, a modern multicultural nation.

So yes, we have to be vigilant on that, but I take heart that it is still strong, and that the majority of Australians still recognise that the nature and the character of who we are as a nation is multicultural.

HOST: And in terms of what multiculturalism actually means in practice other than just a word that we're throwing around, what does it mean in terms of government policy, Minister, like what does it mean for industrial relations law or other forms of laws? Does it have a tangible impact?

ALY: I think so, because I think multiculturalism means that everybody, regardless of where you come from, again regardless of what you wear, what you eat, what language you speak, whether you were born here or whether you were born elsewhere, whether you chose Australia as home or whether you grew up in Australia and were born in Australia, everybody has equality, everybody is able to participate.

And that's why when we make choices as a Government, we make choices about every Australian, so that every Australian has an opportunity to get into their first home, paid parental leave, things like making Medicare easier to see a doctor with your Medicare card.

HOST: Yeah, but that's all blind to culture though, all of those policies, aren't they?

ALY: Exactly, and that's what multiculturalism is, is that every single person, there is no discrimination, whether you were born here or whether you came from overseas, a truly successful multicultural nation means that everybody has the opportunity to thrive.

HOST: Now the other thing she said is that what sparked the riots in Cronulla, Muslims attacking Australian women for wearing bikinis at the beach in a hot Australian summer, she said. What do you make of her comments there?

ALY: If I had to respond to everything that Pauline Hanson said, I would never, ever --

HOST: It would be a full time job, I understand that.

ALY: Yeah, I would have.

HOST: -- forget that.

ALY: I would have to keep going, Patricia, I have to say. But I think it speaks again to Pauline Hanson's consistency in showing contempt for migrants and refugees and people from different backgrounds. She can try and use the Socceroos to make herself more palatable for all she can, but I think Australians know what Pauline Hanson stands for.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay. I just want to move to some other issues, because I suppose the broader issue around multiculturalism is also linked in many ways to immigration. You concede that there is a strong concern about the levels of migration?

ALY: I think so, and I've always said, we should be having a discussion about the levels of migration and the composition of our immigration program, but it should always, always start from a basis of fact, and I do believe that a lot of that conversation and a lot of that narrative has been swirling around with misinformation and disinformation and blown up figures and not starting from facts.

HOST: Doesn't it then require the Government to have a clearer plan, because there seems to be - at least the public's view is that it's not clear, and that's allowing what is a lot of concern around immigration.

ALY: I don't know that I agree with that, to be honest with you, Patricia, I do think that we've clearly articulated our plan. We're out there saying that the levels of immigration have come down from post-COVID highs, we have a plan around skilled migration.

Certainly whenever I'm out there, particularly when I'm talking to small business, around getting them the kind of access to workers that they need through our skilled migration program, and so I do think that we're communicating very clearly that we have a very clear vision for our migration program.

But I do also think that there is a lot of misinformation and disinformation out there, when you hear people rattling off numbers, highly inflated numbers, and, you know, I put Pauline Hanson into that basket as well, without any kind of verification or fact-checking.

HOST: Just on something very specific, the WA Premier, Roger Cook, has been in Canberra this week. They want more exemptions to the capital gains tax changes that you've made. They think the small miners need an exemption as well. Is that something under consideration?

ALY: I think what they're talking about here is around the start-ups and the paper that we've got out now and the consultations that we're doing now around start-ups recognising that the base that start-ups come from can be low or zero.

Look, we'll continue to have those consultations, and of course, you know, mining exploration in particular, can have their say in those consultations as well, but I don't want to pre-empt what comes out of those consultations.

HOST: Okay, but they are those ideas that are being pushed by the WA Premier, that is, you know, made public, that's under consideration in that consultation?

ALY: I would think that because they want to be treated in the same way as start-ups that that would be part of that.

HOST: Anne Aly, thank you for coming in.

ALY: Thank you so much, Patricia.