​​​​Subjects: NZYQ High Court decision, immigration detention, Israel conflict, social cohesion.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Dozens of people held in long term detention have been released after the High Court last week ruled it was unlawful for them to be held there indefinitely. The Solicitor General says up to 92 could be freed. But with several having faced criminal charges, some are worried the High Court decision could put the public at risk. Andrew Giles is the Minister for Immigration. He's in our Parliament House studios this morning. Good morning to you.

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Good morning, Hamish. Thanks for having me.

HAMISH MACDONALD: How many people have been released so far as a result of this?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, Hamish, can I just take this opportunity to maybe update your listeners on what's happened here before we get into the conversation? I'll get into that. It's important to note that last Wednesday the High Court handed down a decision which required the release of an individual from immigration detention, and that was on the basis that it was unconstitutional. So, while the Commonwealth had argued against this, we were prepared for this outcome due to the case's significance. This is something that people have been talking about for really two decades since the High Court set a different precedent. Now there are a number of people around 90 who are likely to be in similar circumstances of that individual. And it is important to note that the High Court hasn't yet provided reasons for its decision, so the full ramifications of the decision won't be able to be determined. We have been required, though, to release people almost immediately in order to abide by the decision the High Court has required us to make, as any government would. And I should say this community safety has been our number one priority in anticipation of the decision and since it's been handed down. So, I want to reassure your listeners that from day one the AFP and Border Force have been working closely with state and territory authorities while we consider all measures that may be available to ensure community protection.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Well, how are you doing that? Because one of those released is the Malaysian bodyguard famously convicted of killing or suspected of killing a pregnant woman faces the death penalty back in Malaysia. How are you keeping public safety front of mind there?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, I'll answer your first question as well, Hamish, so I don't forget you asked about the number of people who've been released. That number is 80, all of whom are on appropriate visa conditions. And that's obviously one of the bases upon which we assure community safety. Those visa conditions include regular reporting. And of course, the engagement that we have between the federal authorities, the Australian Federal Police and Border Force, and relevant state and territory authorities with the powers that they have and the responsibilities that they have is also critical to doing that. While we look at all available responses beyond the immediate, including legislative and regulatory changes.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Yeah, I will get to the broader response from the Commonwealth government. But beyond asking these individuals to make regular check in with police, what else are you doing to protect the public?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, again, there are a range of mechanisms that will apply to people in state and territory under the legal framework there that will be applicable. What we're doing is imposing, well, depending on the nature of the offending, depending on the circumstances of the individual, there will be appropriate responses under state and federal regimes. But we are also ensuring that we have both visa requirements and other requirements put in place that ensure community safety.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Respectfully, Minister, I'm really trying to help listeners this morning understand precisely what that means. Could you be more specific beyond saying appropriate measures?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, the conditions have to be appropriate to the circumstances of the individual. That's a requirement of the court. That's a requirement that we have to have regard to. And what we need to do is obviously the immediate responses. And we'd given some thought, as I said, in anticipation of the court's decision being against us. But of course we need to take further steps. We need to consider what are other things that we can do to ensure that our regime is as effective as possible. And of course, that the coordination of all the enforcement bodies is appropriate.

HAMISH MACDONALD: So, are they under constant monitoring? I mean, we're talking about people that may have murdered people.

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, again, I say that the regime that will be applied has to be applied to the circumstances of the individual. And as I say again, there are a number of requirements on people that relate to the nature of their offending that are requirements of state and territory law. And that's why it's so important that we have a coordinator approach which we put in place at the very start bringing together the AFP, Border Force and those state and territory authorities.

HAMISH MACDONALD: So, what will happen to these people in the longer term? I mean, are you comfortable with them remaining at large in Australian society?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, the High Court has ordered that they be released. Now, obviously they were in immigration detention because we formed the view that they should not be in the community and they should have been on removal pathways. And I guess, what is the difficult issue here, is that for a variety of reasons we had been unable to ensure the removal of these people to the countries where they have citizenship obligations due to other obligations. What we need to do now we have this decision which has changed the law of two decades standing, is to work through it appropriately, doing all the short term things I've talked about. Those immediate actions to ensure community safety today, while being focused resolutely on ensuring into the longer term that we can keep the community safe and uphold the laws of Australia.

HAMISH MACDONALD: So, how will you do that?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, again, we have immediate legislative options before us and regulatory options before us that we need to put in place. And we also need to have the opportunity to consider the reasons for which the High Court has handed down the decision last week. And of course, we don't yet have those reasons.

HAMISH MACDONALD: To put this very simply, is the public safe?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: To date, we are ensuring the safety of the public.

HAMISH MACDONALD: But you made the point earlier that these people were behind bars because the view was that it wasn't safe for them to be at large in the Australian community. They are now. Are we safe?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: The High Court has required us to release the mid of the community. That release has been subject to appropriate visa conditions and with very high level engagement of all relevant authorities. We have taken every step to ensure community safety. That's something I really want to impress upon your listeners, but we're not pausing on what was available to us. As at now, we are looking at every lawful step we can do to ensure going forward that we've taken every step to ensure the safety of the Australian community.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Okay, turning to the Middle East, do you support a ceasefire in Gaza?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, Hamish, I think what we all want to see is the next steps towards a ceasefire and a political process, towards a just and enduring peace. And in saying that that's been the trajectory, I think that the Australian government, the Australian people have been looking towards humanitarian pauses as a necessary first step. This, of course, isn't something that can be one sided. We know that Hamas is still using human shields and holding more than 200 hostages. But in affirming the right of Israel to defend itself after the horrific attack by Hamas on October 7, the way in which Israel defend itself clearly matters. It matters for innocent civilians.

HAMISH MACDONALD: I'm wondering what's different, though, for you on this, because back in 2014, you're one of 27 parliamentarians who signed a letter condemning the ongoing Israeli military bombardment and invasion of Gaza. You said that there should be a ceasefire, an immediate and lasting ceasefire. What's different now? That means you're not calling for a ceasefire.

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, it's 2023, Hamish. Not 2014. What I'm doing now, along with my colleagues, and I'm so pleased to have the opportunity to work with Penny Wong, who has given such a consistent, effective and considered voice on these issues, calling on Israel to honour its commitments, to uphold international law and protect the innocent lives that we're seeing innocent lives on all sides of this conflict. This is what we must not see continue.

HAMISH MACDONALD: But back then, in that letter that you signed, it made the point that Palestinian children were being killed once every hour. Now, the figure is a child every ten minutes, according to the WHO. Why not call for an immediate ceasefire?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Well, I recognise, and I think all members of the government do, that we are witnessing a dire humanitarian situation in Gaza. That's what we're dealing with now, not the circumstances of 2014. We have seen a considered and careful response by the Australian government through Foreign Minister Wong, pushing towards the sort of outcomes that I think every Australian wants to see. In the last few weeks, as Minister for Multicultural Affairs, I've spent an extraordinary amount of time engaging directly with Australians who have a close personal connection to this conflict. Palestinian Australians, Jewish Australians and members of the wider Arab and Muslim communities. And I'm, of course, deeply affected by every one of these conversations. All of us wake up to the news and are affected by it. But for so many in our communities, it is deeply personal and deeply affecting. My focus as Minister for Multicultural affairs has been on maintaining social cohesion and maintaining connection in these communities to a government process. That's what I've been focused on in that role.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Do you think that the government is doing enough to ensure social cohesion? We've all witnessed the different protests that have unfolded in Australia in different places, particularly over the weekend, some in Melbourne, some in Sydney. Obviously, politicians seem to be falling over themselves to take positions on this particular conflict. Do you think politicians have a role in subduing community tensions?

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: I think we've all got a role to take responsibility for safeguarding the great success of our multiculturalism at a time where social occasion is under some challenge. How we speak matters. Listening effectively and engaging with the breadth of community sentiment is really, really important. I think we need to be very responsible in our language and show that we are capable of listening to the concerns which are real in communities right around the country.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Andrew Giles, thank you very much.

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Thanks. Hamish.