Subjects: Commonwealth win in ASF17, Removals legislation before the Parliament to strengthen the migration system, monitoring of detainees required to be released
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Thank you all for coming. I’m pleased to be here with Kaylene Dale, the Acting Australian Border Force Commissioner. She’s here to deal and assist with any matters that go to operational issues.
Now, today the High Court has handed down a unanimous decision in which all members of the court have decided that a non-citizen who has no right to stay in this country and who is not cooperating with their removal can remain in immigration detention until such time as we remove them.
The government welcomes this decision of the court because we have always held this view. And I want to make this very clear: if you have no right to stay in Australia, if you have committed a crime in Australia and you are not owed protection by Australia, we have the right to remove you from this country. And we will continue to work to make our migration system better, stronger and also fairer.
Next week, Peter Dutton will have a choice to make. He will be able to support a bill that strengthens our ability to remove people from Australia who have no right to remain here. That gives us the tools to both strengthen our borders and our refugee protection framework. So far, though, Mr Dutton has shown that he is only interested in playing politics with this issue. He offers no alternatives and no solutions. Time and time again he simply says no.
He has nothing positive to offer this country in this area of policy or anywhere else. He has no solutions, only problems, mostly of his making. He always puts his political interests ahead of our national interest. But what he can do today is turn that around. What he can do is come out and support our bill, closing a loophole, a loophole in our migration system that he left open in the time that he was the Immigration Minister. Or he can stay sitting on the fence continuing to play politics, continuing to put his political interests ahead of our national interest.
I’m very happy to take your questions.
JOURNALIST: Will you put this bill in its current form to a vote or will you [indistinct] Peter Dutton [indistinct]?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Look, as the Prime Minister has made very clear, we’ll be putting this bill forward. It closes a really necessary gap in our migration system. It puts in place what the High Court has really talked about today – an obligation on an individual who has no right to remain in this country to cooperate with their removal. That is a hole that Mr Dutton and his team should be working with us to close. It’s a gap that has remained open for too long. It’s a common sense solution to a real problem. Mr Dutton has had so many positions on this bill I think everyone’s lost count of them. It’s time for him to come with the government and do the right thing to help us manage our migration system and keep the community safer.
JOURNALIST: Has this decision today saved your job?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I’m not focused on those questions. I welcome the decision of the court because I think it enables us to maintain a really important element of our migration system – the ability of the Australian government to enable the removal of someone who only by their action is preventing their removal. And, of course, if they are maintaining that course of action, to keep them in immigration detention. It’s a really important development that enables us to continue to maintain our migration system in the national interest.
It also – and this goes to the previous question – puts the onus squarely on Mr Dutton to work with us to ensure that we can continue to strengthen that system.
JOURNALIST: Does this decision, though, not lessen the need for this bill given that it allows you to keep non-citizens who don’t cooperate with the bill detained?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, the decision has enabled us to maintain this individual in detention whilst he is refusing to support efforts to remove him. What it doesn’t do, though, is that next step – that next step of putting in place an obligation that someone who no longer has a right to remain in Australia will cooperate with removal to do those basic things, like getting the papers. That is a gap that we need to close in our national interest so that we have a migration system that actually operates to serve the Australian national interest.
JOURNALIST: Is Australia’s immigration system stronger as a result of the decision today?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: I think it is. We have affirmed a position that the government has held to. We welcome the decision on that basis. But, as I’ve just said, there is more work to be done. We need to be continually working to make sure that our migration system is serving our national interest.
JOURNALIST: Can you shed some light on why only half the detainees that have been released have ankle monitors?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: These are matters that I might go to the Acting Commissioner for, for some detail. But what is required in aspect of these visa conditions – the curfew and also the electronic monitoring – is an assessment of each individual case. That is why we’ve put in place the Community Protection Board so that experts can consider all of the evidence and make appropriate independent recommendations to ensure community safety and conformity with the law.
I don’t know, Deputy Commissioner, if you have anything to add to that?
KAYLENE DALE, ACTING ABF COMMISSIONER: Yeah, thanks, Minister. So the decisions of the delegate are informed by the Community Protection Board, and I would just make the point that the board is comprised of a range of people with deep expertise in policing, corrections, law enforcement, psychology and community and multicultural factors. Their advice, along with that of senior public servants, helps determine the most appropriate course of action for each individual. Every individual is considered on their own merits and their own circumstances and the appropriate conditions that should be put in place to support community safety.
JOURNALIST: So, what would have informed the decisions only fit half the detainees with an ankle monitor?
KAYLENE DALE, ACTING ABF COMMISSIONER: The board would have considered all the circumstances in relation to each individual, including their migration history, their criminal history, any medical history that might be appropriate, their behaviour in corrections or detention previously to – based on their expert advice and informed opinions develop a view about what the appropriate conditions would be for each individual former detainee.
JOURNALIST: The Prime Minister has said it was the wrong decision of a delegate to make a decision to not put an ankle monitor on the man who is accused of brutally assaulting that Perth grandmother, Ninette Simons. Do you agree that that was the wrong decision, to not fit this detainee with an ankle monitor?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I agree with the Prime Minister that what we need to do here is to make sure that we are doing everything possible to improve our systems so that up-to-date information can be considered by the board and then by the delegate so that we can do everything possible to ensure that these visa conditions are being applied appropriately in all of the contexts, in accordance with the legal requirements and in accordance with community expectations.
JOURNALIST: Will there be any consequences for the people that made that decision? Or what are the direct outcomes for that family?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: For the people who made the decision? Sorry, can you maybe restate the question, if that’s okay.
JOURNALIST: I said – sorry – what will happen as a consequence of the community protection officers who let the detainee who allegedly beat up Ninette go around without an ankle monitor and never opposed bail?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, there are a few questions there and I’ll try and step through them in their sequence. The Community Protection Board is a board composed of the highly experienced law enforcement professionals and other professionals with backgrounds, and I have the utmost respect for them and their capacity to make decisions. I’ve spoken about this particular decision briefly and our response, which is to ensure that we are continually looking at our processes and the processes of all relevant agencies to ensure that the best possible information is provided to the board so it can be – used to inform delegates in every circumstance.
As you’d probably appreciate, decisions around charges are appropriately made by the relevant law enforcement body, be they the federal police or WA or other state or territory police. And, of course, decisions around bail ultimately are made by magistrates, but decisions around the applications are made by independent prosecutors as well.
JOURNALIST: Can we just get an update from the Acting Commissioner about [indistinct] who are [indistinct] Saibai Island just near PNG? What is the basis of their detention there?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I think I might answer that. And you won’t be surprised that the answer is that these are matters that are about the operational matters of Operation Sovereign Borders, and consistent with the longstanding policy of successive governments, I won’t be commenting on that.
JOURNALIST: You’ve been accused of being missing in action over the last few weeks, particularly as conversations around the released detainees have been stronger. What’s your response to that? And why haven’t you come out and spoken on this?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I have spoken publicly about this and gone through some of the issues. I’ve been also mindful of the ongoing criminal processes in WA, which are obviously the most important issue in terms of ensuring that justice is done in any particular case and it’s not prejudiced. I’m here now and I’m keen to answer all of your questions.
JOURNALIST: Peter Dutton has previously called for [indistinct]. Is that something that you had considered or would consider?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I’m uninterested in almost anything that Peter Dutton says. What he is determined to do is be a commentator rather than an actor. What Peter Dutton has shown over the last six months is a failure to reflect on his failures in his time in the Immigration and Home Affairs portfolio, where his set‑and-forget attitude to immigration detention and so many other aspects of his responsibilities have let Australians down, as three damning reports have said.
The thing about Peter Dutton is he’s great at tough talk, but when you scratch the surface he’s revealed not only, as his former colleagues have said, to be a thug but a complete fraud, someone who has weakened our border protection and fundamentally undermined the integrity of our migration system. He’s got a chance now to turn that around, to do the right thing and support a bill which will do more to uphold our migration integrity and help keep the community safe.
JOURNALIST: You mentioned the Community Protection Board. Why have you waited until now to release the first report? It was promised weeks ago. And it’s only just been released. So has there been a delay in this transparency?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: No, we’re releasing the report as we said we were going to do so. It will be a regular report to help inform community debate on these issues.
JOURNALIST: Will you ever use preventative detention laws or rush through laws?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Thank you for the question. The preventative detention regime, the community safety order regime, is a very important element of the layers of protection that we have introduced as part of our framework to respond to the High Court’s decision late last year. There are three elements to this process, and it’s worth touching on briefly.
The first one is the government reviewing in respect of any individual who we believe may be suitable for this approach because of our understanding of the risk that they pose to ensure that we review all of the materials relevant to them. And as I think has been previously reported, this will be tens of thousands of pages of documents.
The second step is for an expert, generally a psychiatrist, to provide their advice on propensity. The last bit is, of course, the determination of the court, and that’s important to understand the court will have to form the view that detention is the only way effectively to keep the community safe in the relevant circumstances.
This is the approach that we were encouraged to undertake by the opposition, and we do thank them for their support here. It’s an approach modelled on their high-risk terror offender scheme. I note that it took three years for the first application to be made under that scheme. I can say that a number of applications are well advanced and are through that first stage.
JOURNALIST: Looking back, do you have any regrets on how the monitoring of the released detainees has been handled?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: I’m determined to do everything I can to ensure that the framework we have in place through visa conditions, through resourcing, through Operation AEGIS, which is, of course, the ABF, the AFP and the state and territory police forces working closely together, is continually improved. We are responding to a High Court decision that overturned two decades of precedent. We need to keep working and keep working through what we are seeing on the ground, working with our trusted law enforcement agencies. I’m determined to keep doing that.
JOURNALIST: The government is facing a host of other challenges to indefinite detention, including the question of whether you have to release people if they have a protection finding made in favour. Are you confident indefinite detention is lawful even if the non-citizen has a protection [indistinct]?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I wouldn’t necessarily accept those characterisations. But what I will say is this: we are determined to maintain the position that we’ve put before the High Court and which the High Court has accepted in its decision today that we need to be able to have the capacity to remove people if they no longer have any right to remain in Australia. And if they are not going to cooperate with that, to remain – to have the capacity to keep them in detention to ensure community safety.
JOURNALIST: Are you concerned that the further court cases from AZC20 or others will still see more immigration detainees released from detention?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, again, there are always cases on foot about the management of immigration detention. We will continue to do everything we can to maintain our framework in the national interest.
JOURNALIST: Does there need to be a legal test to establish whether there are good reasons for someone to frustrate a process of their own deportation?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I think the court has dealt with that matter quite effectively in its decision today, and its unanimous decision today.
JOURNALIST: And in regard to the proposed black ban of entire nationalities, what would you say to Australia’s Iranian and Sudanese diaspora who fear the ban would mean that family and friends never get to actually visit?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Yeah, I would say that I’ve spent a lot of time engaging with diaspora communities in recent weeks listening to their concerns and doing my best to reassure them. What this proposal would do is to do what the United States has had in place since 1952 – more than 70 years. And it really reflects a very simple principle – that other countries should do in respect of their citizens what Australia does in respect of ours. This, as the Foreign Minister has said, is really a diplomatic tool to encourage cooperation on the part of those countries with the Australian government around operating our migration systems in a cooperative manner.
JOURNALIST: Can you assure the community that crimes or alleged crimes as we saw in Perth won’t happen in the future? You talked about continually improving. What measures have been put in place now to assure the community members of that [indistinct]?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, from the start we have put in place mechanisms to bring together the commonwealth agencies, particularly Border Force and the Australian Federal Police with state and territory law enforcement agencies. So we are working together on this matter. We have introduced strong laws in the national parliament and we’ve resourced them to a very, very high extent so that our trusted law enforcement agencies can do their job. We have confidence in them.
We are also recognising earlier – as I said earlier rather, that this is resulting from a High Court decision which has changed 20 years of practice. So we will continually be looking at how we can improve our systems and, indeed, our laws. One such improvement is, of course, the bill which is before the Senate right now.
JOURNALIST: Just one more: how can the government ensure that the five men on Saibai Island are returned to PNG [indistinct]?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, I’ve just answered that question, and I’ll say again that it’s not my practice or the practice of this government to comment on the operational aspects of Operation Sovereign Borders.
JOURNALIST: If we looked at the operations so far, how have you and the team feeling how has the operation been running. Are you happy about how things are going so far, do you welcome [indistinct]?
KAYLENE DALE, ACTING ABF COMMISSIONER: Yeah, thank you. So Operation AEGIS has been running since November 2023. We have directed a number of our existing resources and new resources through the additional funding to support this activity. We’ve got teams in every state. We work very closely with AFP and our law enforcement partners in the states and territories, for which we’re very grateful. We are – you know, will continue, as the minister has indicated, where we can continue to improve we will do that. But absolutely I think the team have done a fantastic job given the circumstances. And I’m really proud of the work that they’ve been able to do.
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Thanks, Kaylene. Any further questions?
JOURNALIST: The Coalition has recommended a number of amendments to the sort of regime that you’re seeking in relation to legislating a criminal offence for people who refuse to cooperate with efforts to effect their own deportation. Things like sunset clauses and more detail on what the Minister must consider. Will Labor accept those amendments to pass the bill?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR IMMIGRATION, CITIZENSHIP AND MULTICULTURAL AFFAIRS: Well, the real question is: will Peter Dutton work with Labor to pass a bill that is necessary? The amendments that they have proposed and put forward frankly are incoherent. Even on their own terms, they are self‑contradictory. The opposition really needs to have a hard look at itself and say are they serious about what they say about border security or are they merely playing politics with national security and community safety. Thanks very much, everyone.
ENDS
